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  #145  
Old September 3rd, 2014, 06:11 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Vrieze
Tons of theme. Not an especially cost-effective unit, but a fun, thematic one. What does "cannot move" mean exactly? Can Brunak carry a frozen figure? Can Saylind summon one? Or Jotun throw one? Or a Hoplitron Shield Push one? Can the figure use any Treasure Glyphs on its army card?

Solovar
Another fun, thematic idea. Really powerful bonding option for DCoT. Some issues I thought of. Does the Solovar player choose which order to roll attack dice in? It can matter in cases like Tul-Bak-Ra being thrown: If TBR is chosen first, the reinforcements are teleported in next to TBR's original position. If TBR is chosen second, the reinforcements are teleported in next to TBR's final position. And what happens in scenarios with NPC units? Who chooses where the figure is placed? And can he throw a figure if there aren't any other figures within 4 clear sight spaces, or no figures you want to target?

72nd Spotters
Making a squad of spotters is an interesting idea, and it's pretty well implemented. I hate, hate, hate Attack Bonding in general though. There's a wording problem too: currently you're giving the bonded hero infinite attacks. Each time it attacks it "may attack again." "One additional" is keywords for exactly one extra (see Double Attack), whereas powers that don't have those keywords allow repeating (Berserker Charge or Frenzy). Assuming you make that change, how many attacks would a Sniper with Double Attack get? Four, according to the wording. Cover is a good power, though honestly an annoying one. I know because I use a similar power on one of my customs. Checking for line of sight to see any part of a figure is fairly simple; checking to see if any part of a hit zone is blocked takes a lot more effort.
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  #146  
Old September 3rd, 2014, 06:34 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

I like how you made a cone attack for a game based on hexes.
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  #147  
Old September 3rd, 2014, 10:13 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Vrieze
Tons of theme. Not an especially cost-effective unit, but a fun, thematic one. What does "cannot move" mean exactly? Can Brunak carry a frozen figure? Can Saylind summon one? Or Jotun throw one? Or a Hoplitron Shield Push one? Can the figure use any Treasure Glyphs on its army card?
@Scytale When we look at Major X17's army card, he has an extra call out beyond "cannot move" that deliberately thwarts special powers and glyphs. As such, for Vrieze, I'd imagine that the hero in question could still be moved by Brunak and Saylind, but would not be able to move themselves using their normal movement or any other movement powers that they possess. I had not considered treasure glyphs, but I'm not sure if I quite care enough to call it out on the card. It is a little anti-thematic to guzzle a potion of healing, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Solovar
Another fun, thematic idea. Really powerful bonding option for DCoT. Some issues I thought of. Does the Solovar player choose which order to roll attack dice in? It can matter in cases like Tul-Bak-Ra being thrown: If TBR is chosen first, the reinforcements are teleported in next to TBR's original position. If TBR is chosen second, the reinforcements are teleported in next to TBR's final position. And what happens in scenarios with NPC units? Who chooses where the figure is placed? And can he throw a figure if there aren't any other figures within 4 clear sight spaces, or no figures you want to target?
I see you are wearing your editors hat today. Off the top of my head, the person Solovar is throwing the other at is the target of the attack. As with figures with explosion based attacks, I believe the rules state that the target rolls defense first, followed by the other figures in an order I can't directly recall (not that it matters with only two involved). With Tul-Bak-Ra, it should be when he is adjacent to his final position. I don't rightly know what happens with NPC units. Whatever does happen, it will work the same as it does with Augamo's Ramming 6. As it is a special attack that targets another figure, he will not be able to throw a unit without a target. It is possible that I have to change some wording to make that clear, but that is the intention at the very least.

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
72nd Spotters
Making a squad of spotters is an interesting idea, and it's pretty well implemented. I hate, hate, hate Attack Bonding in general though. There's a wording problem too: currently you're giving the bonded hero infinite attacks. Each time it attacks it "may attack again." "One additional" is keywords for exactly one extra (see Double Attack), whereas powers that don't have those keywords allow repeating (Berserker Charge or Frenzy). Assuming you make that change, how many attacks would a Sniper with Double Attack get? Four, according to the wording. Cover is a good power, though honestly an annoying one. I know because I use a similar power on one of my customs. Checking for line of sight to see any part of a figure is fairly simple; checking to see if any part of a hit zone is blocked takes a lot more effort.
Good catch on the wording. I have fixed it to compensate. I hadn't anticipated any double attacking snipers (not a great theme fit, in my opinion), but I suppose they would get four attacks if we see each "attack" refer to the "attack phase." I'm honestly okay with that. I was not aware of your aversion to attack bonding, but I felt that it was more strongly thematic when snipers are involved. You'll still need OMs to set your snipers up, but getting double fire power can make them worth while. Thank you for the note on Cover. I saw another custom attempt a similar power and I wanted to try my hand it at. It's thematic, but perhaps I can come up with a different option if the game play becomes a drag.

Thank you for all the comments. You definitely gave me a lot to think about from an editing perspective.
@CrzyRaccoon I'm glad you like the cone. I've abandoned the power since I don't think it quite works within the normal rules, but I'll always have a soft spot for it. It's a real blast to play with. Thank you for commenting.
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  #148  
Old September 3rd, 2014, 11:49 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

I think it works fine but lines are very restricted in hexes, and np.
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  #149  
Old September 4th, 2014, 11:19 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
When we look at Major X17's army card, he has an extra call out beyond "cannot move" that deliberately thwarts special powers and glyphs.
Cyberclaw is a super-trump that not only states figures "cannot move", but also states "cannot be moved by any ..." There is no room for questioning whether or not it can move otherwise. The limited version you have is unclear when movement is and is not allowed. You could limit it to "move normally," which is clear. You essentially want it to be limited to movement the figure does itself, but then powers like Jandar's Dispatch don't fall under that category.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
I see you are wearing your editors hat today.
I never take it off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
Off the top of my head, the person Solovar is throwing the other at is the target of the attack. As with figures with explosion based attacks, I believe the rules state that the target rolls defense first, followed by the other figures in an order I can't directly recall (not that it matters with only two involved).
Nope. The attacker always chooses the order they are affected, unless otherwise stated. You could reword the power to attack the distant figure first, then the thrown one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
As it is a special attack that targets another figure, he will not be able to throw a unit without a target. It is possible that I have to change some wording to make that clear, but that is the intention at the very least.
I can't think of a similar example. Your secondary target (the "chosen" one) is the one in question, and all other examples I know are either incidental "must" (like Explosion) or use "may." I can't think of an example where the secondary target is required to do the attack. Perhaps it would be clear if the first line spells out which two targets are needed. "Choose an adjacent small or medium figure and another figure within 4 clear sight spaces."
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  #150  
Old September 8th, 2014, 12:55 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Thanks for the comments on the Spotters and Solovar. The latter probably needs to be tweaked a bit with the wording, but I think the current pass is good enough for now. I have also edited the Spotters to have Distant Cover 4 instead of Cover 2, keeping the same bonus but swapping the benefit to be ranged dependent instead of having to check sight lines every time you want to shoot at them.

With that said, here is the second half for the spotter team.

This is the SSU - Specialists box from Dust Tactics. The miniatures are supplied unpainted.


This design now uses the two figures on the right.

NAME = Bravo Squad Sniper
GENERAL = Vydar
PLANET = Earth
SPECIES = Human
CLASS = Sniper
PERSONALITY = Precise
SIZE = Medium 5
COMMON HERO

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 9
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 25

PINPOINT SHOT

If Bravo Squad Sniper did not move this turn, when he attacks a non-adjacent figure, before defense dice are rolled, you may reroll an attack die that did not show a skull. Pinpoint shot may only be used once for each attack roll.

SNOW AND ICE ENHANCED MOVEMENT
Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow count as only 1 space when moving.


Relatively straight-forward, these snipers are meant to accompany the spotters to help fill the ranks of crack-shots used with that team. Their power makes them a rather reliable shot, if not particularly devastating against the likes of heroes. Still, these snipers can pick apart enemy forces from a perch if they have a spotter team guiding them. They can otherwise function as moderate filler, but you're probably better off grabbing other options like Guilty McCreech instead in most cases.

As always, comments are greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Ixe; September 9th, 2014 at 11:51 AM. Reason: edits from comments
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  #151  
Old September 8th, 2014, 07:10 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

I should warn you that, from experience, re-rolls for attack dice are surprisingly powerful. Place these guys on height next to Marcus and you have some deadly shooters. Which bond. Other than that, it's a solid design for a common hero.
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  #152  
Old September 8th, 2014, 07:36 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I should warn you that, from experience, re-rolls for attack dice are surprisingly powerful. Place these guys on height next to Marcus and you have some deadly shooters. Which bond. Other than that, it's a solid design for a common hero.
What he said. At 35 points they are probably too cheap. Especially with the double-attack they can get from the Spotters. At 9 range and 5 move for decent mobility they will be devastating. Certainly the most terrifying force to ever defend a FotA set.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #153  
Old September 8th, 2014, 08:08 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

You could always dial it back by limiting Pinpoint Shot to re-rolling one attack die per attack.
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  #154  
Old September 9th, 2014, 11:50 AM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Thanks for commenting, everyone. I am aware that it is deceptively power, though I thought I was already keeping things in check. That said, I've decided to look at the math behind it a little closer to see how it shakes out.

An attack of 2 with this ability against 0 defense is the same as an attack of 4 against 1 life targets and an attack 3 for average wounds. The ability becomes steadily worse than these comparison values as defense climbs, becoming equivalent to an attack of 3 against squads against 4 defense targets and continuing to taper off from there, though always exceeding a normal attack of 2 (obviously).

With height factored in to bring the attack to 3, it becomes equivalent to an attack of 6 against 0 defense, 1-life targets. An attack of 5 exceeds its performance at a defense of 3, with an attack of 4 not outperforming until against an absurd defense of 17. For heroes, it remains below an equivalent of 5 throughout and only just crosses below the effectiveness of an attack of 4 if the target's defense climbs as high as 14.

I won't proceed any further with this analysis since I'm not going to worry about things like extreme height or the inclusion of Taelord. @capsocrates extreme height is already a very imbalanced thing, in my opinion, giving range an enormous advantage with that kind of bonus and not something that I worry about trying to balance with my units. While Taelord may be a bit more reasonable to draft, adding 180 pts to any price tag is a pretty good way of balancing it out. Marcus, as @Scytale mentioned, won't be helping Snipers out at all with his bonus.

This analysis reveals the crux of my problem, however. I am actually fine with the 2 attack option without height, the rough equivalent of an attack of 3 against targets with average defense. However, with height, it does become a bit more effective than I care for, being roughly an attack of 5 against average defense targets. You still have to work for it and the spotters themselves are not very good, but I can see it as an issue. I could jack up their points to compensate, but then they are not quite the fillers I was hoping for and they are overpriced without height. If I drop their attack to 1 and their price down accordingly, then they are rubbish without height and not even that great with it.

@IshMEL your single die suggestion is intriguing. For 2 attack, it actually is equivalent to an attack of 3 for a 0 defense squad and only goes down from there. For an attack of 3, it is equivalent to an attack of 4 for a 0 defense squad and down from there. All said, I suppose that's not that unreasonable. Their shot will just in general be a little better than depicted and certainly less likely to whiff entirely, which was mostly the point about them in the first place. I think I'll drop them down to 25 points and swap that in for the power.

Thanks again to everyone for the comments. This is more of a workshop thread at this point so everything you add is very valuable to the process.
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  #155  
Old September 14th, 2014, 04:26 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
Thanks for the comments on the Spotters and Solovar. The latter probably needs to be tweaked a bit with the wording, but I think the current pass is good enough for now. I have also edited the Spotters to have Distant Cover 4 instead of Cover 2, keeping the same bonus but swapping the benefit to be ranged dependent instead of having to check sight lines every time you want to shoot at them.

With that said, here is the second half for the spotter team.

This is the SSU - Specialists box from Dust Tactics. The miniatures are supplied unpainted.


This design now uses the two figures on the right.

NAME = Bravo Squad Sniper
GENERAL = Vydar
PLANET = Earth
SPECIES = Human
CLASS = Sniper
PERSONALITY = Precise
SIZE = Medium 5
COMMON HERO

LIFE = 1
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 9
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 25

PINPOINT SHOT

If Bravo Squad Sniper did not move this turn, when he attacks a non-adjacent figure, before defense dice are rolled, you may reroll an attack die that did not show a skull. Pinpoint shot may only be used once for each attack roll.

SNOW AND ICE ENHANCED MOVEMENT
Slippery Ice and Heavy Snow count as only 1 space when moving.


Relatively straight-forward, these snipers are meant to accompany the spotters to help fill the ranks of crack-shots used with that team. Their power makes them a rather reliable shot, if not particularly devastating against the likes of heroes. Still, these snipers can pick apart enemy forces from a perch if they have a spotter team guiding them. They can otherwise function as moderate filler, but you're probably better off grabbing other options like Guilty McCreech instead in most cases.

As always, comments are greatly appreciated.
I like them, but are they 4 or 2 figures? Because you said that it uses the designs on the right?
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  #156  
Old September 14th, 2014, 10:12 PM
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Re: Ixe's Custom Units

This is a common hero for which there is only one figure per army card. There is an alternate sculpt that can be used for them. This particular picture would be depicting two Bravo Squad Sniper heroes along with a team of 72nd Spotters.
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