Unit Debate #20 -- Krav Maga Agents Vs. Nakita Agents

[MegaSilver]

The steathly Krav Maga Agents go up against the smokin' Nakita Agents. Which squad of agents will make it to the next battle?



This debate was submitted by scorpiusx.

1. Stats/Special Powers

2. Playability

3. Overall Usefulness

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head

5. Army Builds

6. Best Strategic Use

7. Situational Usefulness

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MegaSilver

[Obsidian]

I have got to go with Krav on this. Their defense power works for normal and special attacks. They also have a longer range and movement, and its all for 20 less points. It is a lot easier to get an extra defense die then it is to improve the D20 roll.
Nikitas do help others, but it just seems that there are enough special attacks floating around that this power is not reliable.

The Nikitas get better when they work with others, but the Krav are always good no matter whom they are with.

[nyys]

This one is a no brainer for me... Krav. The Nakias definitely have their place, but 99 times out of 100 the Krav are the better choice IMO.

[killercactus]

The Krav are more powerful. The Nakitas are more fun, but still solid. The Nakitas work well with Agent Skahen, who is already Krav-Like. A fun little army:

Major Q10 - 150
Laglor - 260
Nakitas - 380
Skahen - 500

This army pretty much has it all. The Nakitas actually function somewhat as a melee screen here, though they pack quite a punch too.

[clancampbell]

Krav hands down.

I had a lot of fun with a Nakita/G'nators build a while back, but outside of that, the Krav are way more usefull and effective.

[MattserTruckRally]

The Krav by far.

Stats
Krav dominate the Nakita's in stats. Their extra range and movement is huge and gives them more flexibility on their turn.

Stealth vs. Smoke Powder/Engagement Strike
Engagement Strike isn't a very consistent as an ability. You'll likely be lucky to get one kill out of it. Smoke Powder is quite a powerful ability if you hit on the first roll. Unfortunately if your opponent has other enemy units that can be targeted after a successful Smoke Powder then the attack isn't fully neutralized.

Stealth Dodge however allows the Krav to stand up to some of the powerful figures in the game. Nilfheim, Major Q10, and Kaemon Awa would absolutely rock the Nakita's with their special abilities and Stealth Dodge allows the Krav to hang with the big boys.




Did I mention that somehow the Krav are 20 points less?

No contest it's the Krav.

[MoonBlade]

It's already been said, Crav.

Nakita's do have their place but are far from the stand alone unit the Cravs are.

This is really an apples to oranges debate.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by MoonBlade

This is really an apples to oranges debate.

I don't think that's true. We're talking about two 3-figure unique squads that both fight for Vydar and are both Tricky (therefore both synergize with Laglor and Skahen), and both have abilities that protect them from ranged attacks.

I think this is one of the most relevant debates we've seen thus far. What makes it lopsided is the cheaper Krav's ability works against Special Attacks, and it's made a lot better by Raelin, who is everywhere. The Nakitas get sloshed by Special Attacks and Raelin doesn't help them anymore than she helps other 3-defense squad figures (which isn't a whole heck of a lot).

[Elginb]

I know this is the minority opinion, but I emphatically go with the Nakitas. The main reason the Krav look better is because Stealth Dodge works against special attacks. But when you're not dealing with special attacks, the Nakitas can be dominant in a way that the Krav never are.

1. Stats/Special Powers - The Krav have better Range and Movement-- no argument there. Stealth Dodge is better against special attacks, but against non-special attacking armies, Smoke Powder is the bee's knees-- I've played many games in which my opponent essentially wastes a turn trying to attack them or adjacent figures. Gorillinator Bonding is a bit trickier-- it's nice to be able to move 6 figures per turn, but the cost of the Gorillinators means that it's easy to counter-draft a special attack army that'll take them all down. Krav win this category.

2. Playability - The Krav are great on their own, but they don't have much direct synergy with other figures. The Nakitas, on the other hand, are good on their own, but they also excel as a support unit-- not only can they protect their comrades from ranged attacks, but they can act as front-line blockers against melee attackers, too. Gorillinator bonding also adds an element that the Krav can't match. So the Nakitas can do most of the Krav can do, but also do a whole lot more in one turn. Nakitas win this one.

3. Overall Usefulness - I think if you're building a tournament army, the Krav are probably more useful. But if you look at the full variety of potential armies in Heroscape, I think the Nakitas are more useful against more armies.

4. Who Would Win Head-To-Head - It's hard to vote against the Krav on this one.

5. Army Builds - The Nakitas usefulness depends on their opponents' army build (does it use special attacks? non-attack wounding powers?). The Kravs, on the other hand, are more reliant on building an army around them. Anyway, that means that the Nakitas are more useful to more armies, but the Kravs can be part of the some of the very best armies. I think they tie in this category.

6. Best Strategic Use - The Krav probably excel at their best strategic use better than the Nakitas excel at their best strategic use. Krav win this one.

7. Situational Usefulness - The Nakitas are more useful in more situations, so I'd give them this category.


Oveall, I really think it comes down to the difference between tournament armies and non-tournament play: I think the Krav are part of some of the very best armies in tournaments, but outside of that realm, the Nakitas really are pretty great. I'm all for the Nakitas.

[Obsidian]

Originally Posted by Elginb

... But when you're not dealing with special attacks, the Nakitas can be dominant in a way that the Krav never are.

I haven't played many games where my opponent didn't have a ranged special attack. I agree with you that the Nikitas rock for normal attacks, but it's just so easy to get a ranged special and bypass the defensive power of a 120 unique squad.

Originally Posted by Elginb

...But if you look at the full variety of potential armies in Heroscape, I think the Nakitas are more useful against more armies.

How so?

Originally Posted by Elginb

5. Army Builds - The Nakitas usefulness depends on their opponents' army build (does it use special attacks? non-attack wounding powers?). The Kravs, on the other hand, are more reliant on building an army around them. Anyway, that means that the Nakitas are more useful to more armies, but the Kravs can be part of the some of the very best armies. I think they tie in this category.

I disagree with this. I think the Krav are good most of the time and don't depend on the army around them.

Originally Posted by Elginb

7. Situational Usefulness - The Nakitas are more useful in more situations...

How so? Nakitas are not very good in a situation were the enemy has a ranged special attack or abilities that bypass defense. The Krav are not as useful when the enemy has abilities that bypass defense. It looks to me like the Krav are useful in more situations.

EDIT: Out of curiosity I ran Krav vs. Nikita into the heroscape matchup calculator and it puts the Nikitas beating the Krav in a head-to-head battle. Not what I expected, but I don't think the calculator takes range and movement into consideration.

[padlock]

I'm going to agree with those that say this is an apples and oranges comparison.

On the surface, I can see why people would find them comparable considering that they're both unit ranged squads with 3 units. In practice however, they play very differently.

The Nakitas, unlike the Krav, are really more support units then anything. Once positioned properly, they're able to benefit your army without requiring the use of an order marker.

The loss of a single Krav agent really cripples their use and makes it harder to justify placing order markers on them. Nakitas don't suffer nearly as much from loosing an agent since they still provide value without any order markers.

[MattserTruckRally]

Originally Posted by Elginb

5. Army Builds - The Nakitas usefulness depends on their opponents' army build (does it use special attacks? non-attack wounding powers?). The Kravs, on the other hand, are more reliant on building an army around them. Anyway, that means that the Nakitas are more useful to more armies, but the Kravs can be part of the some of the very best armies. I think they tie in this category.

Here are a list of figures you can techncially build an army around the Krav with:

Finn - Boost their Attack
Thogrim - Boost Defense/Stealth Dodge
Laglor - Enhance Range
Raelin - Enhance Defense/Stealth Dodge
Agent Skahen - Move Agents
Ootonashi - Super charged movment Boost
Deathreavers - Tie up stuff, etc.

Now I'd say that of these seven the Nakita's would work perfectly fine with six of them and only ok with one of them.

Finn - Boosting Attack
Laglor - Enhance Range/Laglor Protection
Raelin - Protect Raelin while Raelin protects them
Agent Skahen - Move Nakitas protect units
Ootonashi - Super charged movement boost
Deathreavers - Tie up stuff, etc.

Thogrim - The weakest one but still not half bad.

It seems that as far as army selection and synergy go the Krav/Nakitas are sharing from the same pie here.