Ask the Design Team thread.

[Onacara]

This thread is here so everyone can ask questions to Truth, Grungebob and theGuru (sorry if I left anyone out) regarding the design aspects of the new D&D Scape and any future Scape products (when they come out)

One important note about this thread...Once a question is answered do not continue to debate it or discuss it here. If you have a follow-up question for the design team then please ask it but if you want to simply disagree or agree then do it somewhere else. What we are asking of them is some insight into their "war room".

I think it will also be beneficial for those working on custom units to get an insiders look at the thinking process used for official units.


I will do my best to compile the pertinent questions and answers here in the first post.


So let's start....

Originally Posted by Onacara
Q: I was looking at the original cards from the D&D mini's used for the new figures and was wondering if the movement value of the Scape units directly correlate with the movement values from the originals? Or is this just a coincidence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
coincidence.

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Originally Posted by jschild
With the fact that only 1 of the new figures truly synergized well with existing units (in the bonding type sense), should we expect some new bonding units (or similar) with the new waves coming out, or will most of the new bonding/synergy be contained within the new waves themselves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
The set was designed as a game where everything you need to play is in the box. If this is the only Heroscape product you buy, you will be fine with what is in the box. The expansion waves are designed differently.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice
The debate in the Deepwyrm Drow book is: Is a figure with OSD (Migol or Crixus) subject to the Drow's Poison Weapons?

It seems like they would be, since PW is a Special Ability and the target doesn't roll defense against it, but I want to make sure before I put it in the book.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
The most the figure can receive from that attack is one wound.

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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94
How do you go about designing each figure?

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Originally Posted by skyknight
Through heavy arguing until we all arrive at common ground

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by GromBloodboy
Q: When you use proxys for playtesting, does that not upset the point balance based on LoS. If you use a figure such as the reaching Gladiatron, which is easier to see then say Marcu, do you include this in your change for point values.

Do you really think that the sculpt is such a significant part of points costing that we need to acknowledge it at all? I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swamper
Q: When you design the figures, which aspect is the most important to you: the competitive, or the fun factor?

Speaking only for myself, I like fun factor. I also like originality of powers. But I understand that competitive type play is also part of the fun for many.

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Originally Posted by Darkmage7a
Q: The newest master set 3 is entitled Battled for the Underdark. There are many popular monsters from the different worlds encompassed D&D, for example the Underdark is only one region of the larger setting of Fearun. What led to the decision for using the Underdark as the theme for the set?

WOTC decided this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmage7a
Q: There are a number of abilities in the new set that share their namesakes with terms from D&D; Cleave, Regeneration etc. Obviously there were a number of ways to represent the abilities in Heroscape given the distinctions in the two rules systems. Did the team debate for a long time over any one ability in particular? What were some of your favorite abilities to design?

There were some that just couldn't be translated, others took a lot of work to get right, but we didn't debate.

My favorite abilities are yet to be shown. We have done some different things with some of the units in Wave 11 and 12. Their are new kinds of synergies, and some interesting movement based abilities, also some new terrain based abilities.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmage7a
Q:Who determined the number and type of terrain included in the new set? Is that part of the design teams responsibility or is that out of your hands so to speak?

PS: I really like the variety in the set, it may have fewer tiles but it has a lot of flexability.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
That was WOTC.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Therrian
Q: When designing the characters for a new set such as MS3, how many different figures did you guys start with before you decided on the ones that made it into the set? How many were scrapped due to various reasons? Was there a favorite of anyone's that didn't make the cut?

Thanks guys...counting down the days until release

WOTC decided which figures were in the Master set. Then it was our job to translate those into Heroscape. At the same time we had to make sure that the Master was a complete set on it's own and not entirely reliant upon any other Heroscape product. This is something they relied heavily on us for. We were told which figures were in the set and we worked with WOTC to ensure that our creations meshed with their understanding and knowledge of D&D. The Master set was not easy. I cannot convey the personal challenges we worked through, but I will say that Colby, Chris and I are a united front in everything we do, and preserving Heroscape was our primary goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tannergx
Q: How much freedom did the design team have to interpret units for the D&D sets? For example, the races of the master set figures seem like exact translations from the D&D minis (Eladrin vs. Elf Wizard), and in the case of the Feral Troll, someone mentioned the name is straight from the D&D mini.

I'm most interested in ability selection. D&D units generally appear to have a laundry list of abilities compared to Heroscape units, and I'm wondering if the design team got to pick the abilities for the translated units or if WOTC did.

Hope this question makes sense.

We had freedom, but at the same time, each unit is checked by WOTC. There were times when they wanted us to re-do some of the units because our interpretation was not in line with how the units behave in D&D. In all cases, these challenges lead to better units. We really wanted to hit the nail on these and show what the Heroscape engine can do. By the same token, we were also allowed the creative freedom to re-interpret D&D units that we felt were not good Heroscape units, so that they would work better in our game system.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by whitestuff
I'm excited about this release. It looks like fun.

Q. When you read some of ridiculous comments from people with an over-developed sense of entitlement about something that you've worked so hard to achieve, does it anger you?

Not as long as it is in the spirit of friendly discourse. If it is just some blowhard spouting stuff just to jerk their ego off, I'm not havin' it.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice
Then for what its worth, I just proxied everything for the first time, and the team did a hell of a job on this set. The new stuff is great. Even Erevan, who is getting a bad reputation before he has even been released, is a great drow-killing design.

Seriously, good work all around. You've got me really psyched for the next wave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
If it is just some blowhard spouting stuff just to jerk their ego off

Why'd you look at me when you said that??

I've never been disappointed in Erevan.

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Originally Posted by skyknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorgrim
What method is used when the design team point values a character? Do you have a mathematical equation to figure out a figures worth by their stats, or is it a field test to see how much of such and such they can kill?

The points are always rough at first and theory scape can get you close but not there. The points are assigned and then played....as we try different combos we come to a point agreement. Fromt here if the stats change we usually can also change points to make up the difference.

Its really no different than what we used to do in the custom sections....

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan
I have a question. Grungebob talked a little bit about how WotC told you guys what would be in the set and how you were trying to show what the HeroScape game engine could do.

Is DnDScape a proving ground of sorts for HeroScape?

That is, if HeroScape had been more productive, we wouldn't have seen DnDScape? Also, it kind of sounded like HeroScape was the new guy at the party and they (WotC) was throwing stuff at it to see how it does and if it is tough enough to hang around. Is this kind of an accurate picture?

No, my point was that I think you can use Heroscape's engine to capture the flavor of many other systems. D20 has been known for it's flexibility, and I think we showed that Heroscape can be adapted rather seamlessly as well.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by jschild
No need to be specific at all, but I was wondering, can you confirm if there will indeed be any reprints of previous waves or terrain in 2010, in addition to Wave 11 and 12? Don't need any hints, just wondering

Cannot confirm this.

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Originally Posted by Nukatha
Related to JSC's above post:

Have the Flagbearers/Hot Lava Death been looked into for re-release at all?

How long until Heroscape becomes Wizard's flagship product (or at least more popular that MTG)?

I do not know the answer to this.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkins
I don't know if you're allowed to answer this or not, but here goes:

Q. Can I wait and get Feral Trolls and Deepwyrm Drow in an upcoming expansion wave, or will I be buying multiple MS3's?

I'm not concerned with how many MS3's you plan to buy, but I will say that this year, the only release that has Feral Troll and Deepwyrm Drow, is that Master Set 3. I personally doubt that they will be released any other way.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Hahnarama
Oh Santa Grungebob,

Can you give us hints as to want other classes and races we might see in 2010, The Year We Make Contact ?

Get off my lap.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz
Is it true when pricing a unit, you try to use optimum conditions, or do you also consider Worst Case scenario and the tournament metagame? For example when working on a unit do you say, "Now how will this fair against Q9 and deathreavers" or "If we add raelin the defence will be too high?"


http://www.heroscapers.com/community...75&postcount=2

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Train
Should we worry that the MS3 release will be as limited as Wave 10 or Wave 2 reprints? ie, should I buy right away or risk missing the boat?

In these economic times, I can only guess that there will be less product manufactured than was previously being made. So yes, if I had any advice to give, I would say don't wait.

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Originally Posted by theGuru
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Originally Posted by chas
Having now actually played the new set, my first question is: Can you continue your turn and attack after picking up a treasure glyph? (I'll guess yes, just for simplicity, since its not specifically mentioned).

Yes.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspoons
I know that certain aspects are down to WOTC and not yourselves, but within your capacity to say and things youve been told, do you know if all the upcoming product will be based on fleshing out the D&D line with little or none to classic space?

I think the D&D stuff looks fantastic and well done. I just worry a little that the sci-fi and historical figures may dissapear in the D&D run.

Does anyone know if a successful MS3 sales-run may lead to new sculpts for D&D minis (obviously cash investment from WOTC needed) or keep with existing D&D sculpts for cash reasons.

Thanks for all the great work so far and thanks for all the info youve put forth in this thread.

BobSpoons

I can't answer any of these specifics. Remember that WOTC is in control of many many aspects of Heroscape production. We as designers are in charge of bringing their product choices to life in the Heroscape world to the best of our ability. If they choose to do all D&D, or throw some Classic in, or do all Classic... These are decisions they make without our input. We are focused on design, the rest is up to them pass or fail.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Wind Lane
I at least hope they ask you guys for input on the pulse of the community since you would have the best understanding of it being involved and/or in charge here. Showing that they at least take us fans into account some.

But by this time, they know what we want. We have never shied away from expressing any reservations we know the fans will have. At some point they need to make decisions that work for them and us. We (Chris, Colby, and me) are not responsible for those decisions. So we do not have the info requested.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by winonavampire
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Originally Posted by CheddarLimbo
Has there been any playesting of scenarios in which there are more than one player teamed up against the Bad Guy player?

Does it work well to have 2 400 point allied armies against 1 800 point army? Or should it be 4 400 point armies with one player controlling 2 of them (with two sets of OM's, etc) in order to keep the balance?

I can tell you from personal experience (not with MS3 scenarios, but in general) The the third player needs to have 2 sets of OM. 2x 400 armies are far greater then 1x 800 point army.

Imagine your opponent get twice as many moves, attacks etc.

I have a cooperative plan in the works.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspoons
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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobspoons
I know that certain aspects are down to WOTC and not yourselves, but within your capacity to say and things youve been told, do you know if all the upcoming product will be based on fleshing out the D&D line with little or none to classic space?

I think the D&D stuff looks fantastic and well done. I just worry a little that the sci-fi and historical figures may dissapear in the D&D run.

Does anyone know if a successful MS3 sales-run may lead to new sculpts for D&D minis (obviously cash investment from WOTC needed) or keep with existing D&D sculpts for cash reasons.

Thanks for all the great work so far and thanks for all the info youve put forth in this thread.

BobSpoons

I can't answer any of these specifics. Remember that WOTC is in control of many many aspects of Heroscape production. We as designers are in charge of bringing their product choices to life in the Heroscape world to the best of our ability. If they choose to do all D&D, or throw some Classic in, or do all Classic... These are decisions they make without our input. We are focused on design, the rest is up to them pass or fail.

Thanks for the response. I do know that WOTC as you say are in control and wasnt implying that you were part of the decsision process, I had thought I had covered that in my first line though I may not have been clear and so sorry for that.
I also wasnt implying you have any part in the decision making process.

I just thought that as their designers, if WOTC had decided to make some more classic scape, and thus presented yourselves with classic-scape to put stats to and playtest, then you would therfore have an idea that they are still looking at classic scape.
Essentially, I was wondering what conclusions could be inferred from what future product WOTC had so-far passed through to yourselves.
Sorry if I wasnt clear on that and thanks very much for all your time and input so far.
As implied in my original post, I do also appreciate that any info you may have may not actually be releasable by you anyway and that is understood and remain grateful for the info you have already put forth.

Thanks
BobSpoons

No I understood you, but I just wanted to make sure you know where we stand. We are not hoarding information. We tell you guys everything we are allowed to. We don't hold anything back unless we know we would violate NDA by telling you all. So many folks are asking us about Classic Heroscape. We know it is a major concern of yours. We are Classic scape fans ourselves first and foremost. If we knew the answer and were allowed to tell, then you all would also know.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkins
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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkins
I don't know if you're allowed to answer this or not, but here goes:

Q. Can I wait and get Feral Trolls and Deepwyrm Drow in an upcoming expansion wave, or will I be buying multiple MS3's?

I'm not concerned with how many MS3's you plan to buy, but I will say that this year, the only release that has Feral Troll and Deepwyrm Drow, is that Master Set 3. I personally doubt that they will be released any other way.

OK, so I have two follow up questions:

In playtesting, did you find that it was desirable to have multiple Trolls and multiple squads of Drow?

And if so, why?

I'm assuming the answer to the first question is yes since the Drow are Common and the "Uncommon" designation was created for the Troll, but would like to hear what you have to impart on the subject based on your playtesting experience.

Desirable? Please expand on this. What do you mean when you say desirable? I find that all figures are desirable. I collect figures.

Trolls and Drow are common because in the D&D world, these creatures are encountered in large numbers.

If there is something else your trying to get at please just ask plainly.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porkins
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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Porkins;986212
OK, so I have two follow up questions:

[B
In playtesting, did you find that it was desirable to have multiple Trolls and multiple squads of Drow?[/b]

And if so, why?

I'm assuming the answer to the first question is yes since the Drow are Common and the "Uncommon" designation was created for the Troll, but would like to hear what you have to impart on the subject based on your playtesting experience.

Desirable? Please expand on this. What do you mean when you say desirable? I find that all figures are desirable. I collect figures.

Trolls and Drow are common because in the D&D world, these creatures are encountered in large numbers.

If there is something else your trying to get at please just ask plainly.

Sorry, what I meant was, I wondered if you found yourselves imagining up more scenarios with multiple Trolls and Drow squads, or did you find yourselves sticking to what comes in the box?

We stuck with what was in the box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loborocket
Q1: Does the design team use any kind of "test plan" when playtesting? i.e. Play a match against a 4th Mass Army, play amatch against a Vydar range army, play a match against kinghts army, etc... Or do you just play what you feel like playing and try to mix in a variety?

Q2: How many games are typically played with new figures in order to work out "statistical anomoloy" and luck factor in order to decide a figures final cost?

We use a method I call "play and evaluate". Which means basically, you draft the new figure, play with it and evaluate its effect on the game. Beyond this just have fun.

We don't use a scientific method, we are all busy people, and playtesting is volunteering. Roll dice, push plastic, report results. Works far better than speculation any day.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkurtb
1) Have you received any feedback or input from CVN or Rob D?

2) Can you comment on anything that got "left on the cutting room floor", perhaps abilities or units that were too complicated or mechanics that were great theoryscape but poor Heroscape?

Thank you.

CVN played through the D&D Master set campaign and enjoyed it.

There are dozens of units on the cutting room floor.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
For Neutral Figures, such as in Crazy Troll, can you put an 'X' OM on it that will give you +1 to Initiative? (I guess yes, since in all cases the X counts as "an OM").

Yes I believe you can.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chas
Thanks, GB. Here's a related question, since I'm solitairing Crazy Troll for the first time right now:

Can you intentionally disengage the neutral Troll, just to put wounds on him? (Example, the Hero Team player moves the Troll away from the battle with the Party, putting three leaving attacks on him).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
No because when you activate him he is in your control, so he cannot be swiped by your own dudes.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Uchiha Blood
Can you see if any units will be coming from older out of print sets such as Harbinger, Dragoneye, and Archfiends or will the units be confined to sets released since the launch of D&D4E?

Nope sorry, that is beyond our scope. Please no more questions about this.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by minimoose38
This question has no gameplay significance but it should be an easy answer.

What Forgotten Realms deity is Ana a cleric of?

I have no idea what deities survived the switch into 4th edition, especially not which Forgotten Realm ones.

Sune, the diety of love, and beauty.

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Originally Posted by Chardar
You said that you use proxies when testing figures. What did you use when you were testing the very first set?

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Very first set as in ROTV?

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Chardar
Yes.

We were not part of the testing of the first set.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by CanScape
...my question is this: in order to include the many awesome dragons in the DnD universe, are the designers only looking at existing figures from the old DnD minis game, or could there be plans to make new figures?

BONUS: Will we ever see creatures with a base LARGER than two hexes?..three hexes?...FOUR?!?!...FIVE, FIVE GIGANTIC DRAGON HEXES!!! AH AH AH AH AH AH AH! (insert The Count graphic, cackling)

The designers are not the ones choosing the figures.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by TheLorax
Is the playtester gig a full-time thing or like a part-time or seasonal job that comes up every so often?

It comes in spurts without much notice and usually at inopportune moments.

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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94
Is being a Design Team Member fun, or does it get to be a lot of work? Or both?

It is mildly fun but also a lot of work and some stress. You feel personally responsible for everything, can talk about nothing, and know about 10% more info than any regular Joe. You rarely get to play Heroscape just for fun. Rÿchean and I have started just having fun days where we play regular heroscape no playtesting, just fun.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by TnT2
I don't know if this has been asked and answered (my search-fu was not strong), but

Q: Though I see the need for DnD classes etc, why was it decided to make Erevan an Eladrin instead of an elf. Tandros a warrior instead of a champion. The Feral Troll a Hunter instead of a Beast...

It seems these options for synergy with classic scape were lost (yet the dwarves still got theirs). If the dwarf had not been a dwarf it may have made more sense. I think (aren't there elves in DnD?)

Thanks

Tandros is a fighter which is a class in D&D. Erevan is an Eladrin not an elf. Ferall troll is not a beast but that doesn't mean we won't make more beasts. Somehow some of you got it into your heads that Heroscape is all about synergy. But if you look back over the years, there are so many figures that are not made to synergize. It is ok. It's not like we don't know about all the easy ways there are to create synergy. By years end I think you all will see planty of synergy. (I'm growing tired of the term synergy. I wish there was a better term)

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Rich10
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Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Dang it!!!! Slave driver!!!



Either Rÿchean or Grungebob, what is your favorite army to play just for fun?

Hodge Podge

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94
How long does it take to design a unit?

We always barely get them done in time for deadline. The deadline varies.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by chas
Here's another basic rules question, which I hope will be helpful to others too. I've got all four rooms set up together for the first time. Just for fun, here's the situation:

Tandros and Erevan have for the first time become my only heroes to have survived since Room 1. Now, in Room 4, Tandros starts with the Attack Glyph and Erevan picks up the Defense Glyph. Tandros slays the Dragon, but the Troll move up and finished Erevan off, and the Eladrin drops his glyph. Next turn, the Good Guys get the initiative, and Tandros picks up the second glyph as well.

Can Tandros us both glyphs at once, getting a +1 Attack and a -1 Defense? The rules aren't specific but say 1) Glyphs affect those who carry them and 2) A hero can carry more than one glyph at a time. On the other hand, 3) when glyphs are dropped, all but one vanish!

(I say he can...) What's the ruling?

He gets to benefit from both.

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Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94
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Originally Posted by Onacara
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Originally Posted by 'Scaper94
Will there be any ranged common squads in Wave 11?

This is not the intention of this thread.

Just thought I'd ask... You never know if you don't try.

Rest assured, as soon as they are allowed to tell us what they know, they will.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
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Originally Posted by NecroBlade
Q: What type of unit is your favorite to design (some combination of: cheerleader, offensive, defensive and hero or squad)?

Q: How do you determine what roll should be required for d20 powers (like Engagement Strike 15/13)? Simply through playtesting? If so, how do you choose what number to start with?

Seems like this was the last serious question posted. Maybe we can restart?

On a similar note, are you allowed (willing?) to chat about some of your favorite units (or abilities) to design so far?

I can imagine that there might be a figure or two that really stands out as a particularly fun (or tricky) unit to design. Krug or the Nakitas seem like ones that would have been cool to take from drawingboard to final design, for example.

I prefer simple units. If you can evoke a theme with one or two lines of ability text that's what I like. I also like abilities of any length that have an uncomplicated yet thoroughly realized theme.

Jotun was one of the funnest units for us to work on because Craig wanted to acheive something that at first we were unsure if it could be done. Nikitas were also a challenge.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade
Interesting to see that you like simplicity, when so many units have been coming out with 3 powers, and some wordy ones at that (though I suppose those would fall under "abilities of any length that have an uncomplicated yet thoroughly realized theme").

dragonite: has said time and again those are the kinds of questions he can't answer.


Very true. I think we need to add more units that offer simple powers but are useful and interesting additions. I think there are folks who like the complex powers and some D&D characters just can't be captured with the simple stuff.

Back when we were struggling with Jotun, we realized that while having a Giant who could throw other units was cool and worthwhile, it was also very complex. I think Jotun proves that it is sometimes necessary to design complex units.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Wind Lane
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Originally Posted by Bolo
Don't think this has been asked yet.

Since the D&D scape is a dungeon crawl experience and since it is all generals vs Utgar, will all the D&D scape squads go to Utgar? And will all the other generals only get unique heros?

I'd say no. It was the same setup with SotM, yet the waves that followed saw plenty of variety on who got what.

This is one of those things that just fluctuates all the time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therrian
Q: How many people are involved in the creation of Heroscape. Beyond the playtest/design folks that are here, how many WOTC people are actively involved in putting out the game?

Look at the credits section of your MS3 rulebook.

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Originally Posted by Grungebob
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Originally Posted by Onacara
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Originally Posted by A_Train
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Originally Posted by Onacara
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Originally Posted by padlock
Q: When designing a unit, how much emphasis is placed on theme/flavor as opposed to game balance. For example, the entangling web special ability of the Fyorlag Spiders is limited to small/medium figures. Was that limitation placed for gameplay reasons or simply because it's hard to image small spiders entangling things like dragons and dinosaurs in their web.


Did the Design Team design the Spiders?

I don't know honestly. I thought they had only been involved with wave 9 and on, but then there are quotes for them working on Jotun. It's not crystal clear.

If you know the answer, then saying "The Design Team didn't design the spiders."
The Spiders are also just an example to his original question.

They were an example to which he then asked a specific question about.

Onacar, don't you have some mailing to get to?

To answer the question, We may in the future design a Large or Huge spider. We don't want him to get webbed by tiny spiders. And really the webs are just to weak to hold the big guys. The spiders were not designed by us but they were worked on and finished through our testing procedures.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therrian
Q: You mentioned in another post that many units have been left on the cutting room floor. Were any of these axed because they pushed the silliness/humor line a little too far to be used?

IE - This is the battle of all time, and Gorilla Men are ok, but dancing monkey clowns are not sort of thing.

We don't axe units, so I don't have an answer.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Train
Q: When playing through the scenarios in MS3, I find myself frustrated when the Heroes lose, and have to restart a room. The Prequel Scenario provided on the site gave sort of "alternate" paths based on whether the heroes one or were defeated. Do you see this as something that may become used more frequently, or was it an one shot deal?

The next scenarios will have a new mechanism that makes the adventure flow a little better to keep your adventuring party in it til the end.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revdyer
Q: When design figures are being play-tested, are they tested primarily on maps made from the sets the figures are included in, i.e., were the SotM figures tested on terrain maps from that Master Set, the DnD ones from that Master Set, etc.? Or were they tested on more generic maps and terrain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
On both, generally. If a figure has a power that only applies on some maps, it makes sense to try them out a bit on that terrain a bit, but I also like to test units on typical maps. [For example, Hot Heights is set up on my table right now. Before that, I had a few dungeon maps set up. Soon, I think I'm going to try concoct a TT + Dungeon map to see how a nice little ice cave looks].

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Scenario maps are tested according to the build instructions. So far we avoid testing figures on maps/scenarios that are also being tested... Just too many variables.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therrian
Q: What do you guys want to see added to Heroscape? Is there a terrain type or creature type that has a soft place in your heart that you would love to see grace the gameboard?

I would love to see space marines added. These could be quite something. My mind is filled with design ideas for space marines.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
If you're talking them into space marines, how about some deck plating style terrain (need a lot of it, maybe 24-hexers) and maybe some control panels or other big pieces of technology as terrain/cover features.

I was wondering it would be possible to make space looking walls or struts that could hold support terrain at the top too. I haven't seen anything like that in the customs, but maybe it could work.

That is already on the list. Right after the battery operated pirate Krug.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies
What are the designers going to do to keep uncommon heroes from overshadowing unique heroes? For example, an uncommon hero that was otherwise identical to, say, Agent Carr would be a superior card in every way, since you'd have the option of drafting more than one. What is being planned to prevent this from happening?

I am not a designer but I can tell you that Truth, Grunge, and Dupuis are basically the keepers of this great game. This is the very reason they are involved, to maintain the integrity. There are not going to allow the uncommon hero classification tear down every thing that has gone before.

They have check and balances, testing and retesting and then us play testers. They will err on the side of too expensive before the allow UNcommon heroes to take over the joint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Do common squads suddenly make unique squads obsolete? Nobody drafts the Krav anymore because the 4th Mass exist?

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Do common squads suddenly make unique squads obsolete? Nobody drafts the Krav anymore because the 4th Mass exist?

No, but a 110-point, 3-figure ranged common squad with stealth dodge might. My point was that we never saw something like that from the original design team for good reason, and I wanted a little official reassurance that the current team is still aware of the risks.

Thank you Sherman D. Yes you have a very valid concern and it is one that is worthy of discussion. It has yet to be asked but it is something we all probably think about.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

This would be one possible solution, but (no offense, Rÿchean) I'd like to hear it from one of the designers.


But Rÿchean should be able to speak to the point, yes grunge truth and guru are designing but if we call foul they listen. They know when they release figs they always need some tweaking to some degree. So if something got too nasty there are layers of filters to catch it. Probably more now than in the past.

In my opinion all the active playtesters should be equal voices in this thread.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by TOG
Q. Do ideas in the customs section deter you from some designs? For example, if someone did a custom pirate squad, would you lean away from designing a official pirate squad for fear of the 'You stole my idea!' issue?


We all stay out of customs for just that reason, it's also why I don't post my own anymore.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies
So when Grungebob pops in on my customs threads, he's being naughty?

Eh, he's the designer so that is his call...me, I stay away just to keep from being influenced. But if you think about it most of us were custom designers at one time on this site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Not sure why Skyknight would stay away from the customs section, but I do know that Craig and Rob avoided those sections like a plague.

Me on the other hand? I started as a custom designer. I'm familiar with that section. I go in to the Supers and the Jedi customs these days. There are some incredible talents at work over there and it doesn't seem to overlap with what we are doing for WOTC at all. I primarily go in to those threads to offer any help that I can, if they even need it at all. I am also an admin here and I wander around checking on things all the time. I even keep an eye on the hangout.

We design to the theme of the figure. No amount of custom browsing is going to change what we do and how we do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
You see thats it, it is a leftover from the Craig days when he first brought me on and per his briefing. I just never veered from that path really. Though like you said, things are different now since we are part of this community and always have been, especially with you being admin it is kinda hard to avoid those areas.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox
Question: What is the timeline for when each of you got involved in playtesting? What was your first project, and can you give any details to how it felt to be a part of making it?

I did not work on Wave 1 but it wasn't out yet when I was brought on. I have always felt a lot of anxiety associated with all this. The pressure has gradually increased over these years as my responsibilities have increased. There is fun, but this is also duty and I take it seriously.

[quote=Jexik;1001872]
I came on in the middle of the development of MS3.

For me, it's a mixture of really cool and weird. It's cool to be a part of the stuff behind the scenes, and see how (at least part of this game) is made. But there's definitely a bit of time pressure and testing changes the way I look at tournaments* and community interaction. It's weird to want to play and discuss stuff that is essentially done, but isn't available to everyone else.

Even when stuff does get released, I'll probably avoid talking about power rankings and tournaments and stuff for awhile, just to give the community a chance to digest everything.

Also, because of the change to the D&D figures, I think everything is under the microscope more than a lot of earlier releases when it comes to power creep and playability and "fitting" with existing units. This adds to some of that anxiety and friction, potentially.

*For example, I hadn't tested my army for the main event even once, and it showed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox
The "fanboy" side of me loves hearing this kind of stuff, but it's interesting just in analyzing the game, too.

On the anxiety: I think it is good you both take it seriously enough to feel some pressure. (If it helps, you're doing a great job maximizing the fun per $ subject to cost constraints.) If nothing else, I hope you can enjoy it the way a parent enjoys watching their kids open presents on Christmas morning. It may not be quite the same as being the kid, but it's still pretty darn great.

I imagine reading the forums may increase the anxiety a bit, as we all tend to discuss both our positive and critical thoughts pretty openly. The bottom-line, though, is that we love what you've been doing for a long time or we wouldn't be here.

(Jex: See PM.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyknight
I build big ol helicopters for a living, watching them work and fly away is a huge thing for me. It gives me a great sense of accomplishment that I just released an aircraft that has a huge future in front of it. The release of a wave is almost the exact same feeling. Ask the CG3 boys, they kinda get it I bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Obviously a play tester cannot just think through testings, they have to put figures on the board and pitch some dice. So each play tester has to have other players that assist them in their testing efforts. Whether that is friends or family or whatever, it is other players that are not on the official play tester forum and not privvy to all that is in the works, but they are under NDA just the same. I call that being a 2nd tier tester. I started as a 2nd teir play tester in Jan 2006 working with GB on whatever was needed at the time.

The first units I was involved with as a 2nd tier tester where Nakitas, Gladiators/Capuans, Glads/Blasts and Kato/Ashigaru. It was a pretty exciting time as the mechanics for those unit combos were a bit different than what had gone before and represented some new directions.

I was brought on as a Tier 1 play tester in September of 2008.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therrian
Interesting...perhaps this is common knowledge amoung some folks, but I take it that the Glads from Wave 5 and the Cap Glads from Wave 9 were developed at the same time? Makes sense from a balance standpoint, just curious.

Absolutely they were.

It was the longest gap I know of in terms of units being designed to work together and actually being released. It was brutal to watch Spartacus get dog cussed for 3 years for sucking and costing so much knowing that the Capuans were still to come.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takanuva
Where there ever any figures or abilities that you really wanted to work and succeed but ended up not being relesed?

Yes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Mmirg
Great question, great answer , but, man, I am left feeling deeply unfulfilled now, ah well... .

Well, I really cannot say more. The unreleased may someday be released. Nothing is completely impossible.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Marro
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice
Question: Can we expect to see DnD units with Classic-Scape classifications? I don't just mean synergies (I know this has been answered). But will any DnD releases be labeled with strictly "Scape" classifications like "Venoc," "Omnicron," or "Gorillinator," e.g.?

Yea I'd like to see hear this one too.

Be more specific. Are you talking class? Will there be some D&D guys with the same class as classic scape figures? Well there already are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiteofthedice
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Marro
I think he meant will there be more units belonging to the races that are already established.

That's basically what I meant. Another way to word it might be "Will DnD continue to flesh out any races which are unique to HS?" Will any Dnd sculpts be borrowed to create new Omnicrons, new Vipers, etc.

I'm wondering how close the close ties will be. Thanks for the nod, GB.

~Spite

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
I don't know this answer but as long as we are designing D&D scape, I doubt we will be adding things that are only found in Heroscape.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan
What do you (the design team) look for when determining if a DnD mini is fit for HeroScape?

I was really impressed with the changes in the elementals, and the way you changed several warrior-figures into the phantom knights by changing the color of the plastic. How much are you allowed to alter a DnD figure to put it into HeroScape?

Most of this kind of decision is made by WOTC. They told us that these three sculps would be phantom knights, the plastic would be translucent and look spectral. They asked us to design cards to match.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uhurugu
Is there a possibility of more four-man squads?

Yes. I mean why would the designers remove that possibilty?

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onacara
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl
Is there a specific reason why there are no squads with more than 4 members?

It may go back to the origins of Heroscape where the Tarn were originally going to be a 5 man squad. The fifth tarn was then turned into Finn.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Pan
That's very interesting, and slightly concerning. Do the people making the decisions on what would join our game play HeroScape, do they have a vested interest as a fan, are they concerned about figures fitting in more or less with the already established figures?

The guys we work with are very familiar with Heroscape and are clever individuals. They have their own projects to work on. When we don,'t approve of some things we mention it and they make changes. In the case of the phantom knights we thought they sounded cool.

Quote:
Another question, would it be possible to use DnD figures to fill in the gaps left in the classic bios? For example, if the proper figures could be found, could we possibly see dreadguls or raptorians or Cyprien's skeleton cavalry?
If we ever get skeletons, I have a feeling they will be new sculps.

Quote:
Another question, is there any work being done on the bios for the last few releases?
Do not know the answer to this.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexik
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild
ok, here's my questions:

Since WotC are linking DnD to Heroscape due to sales issues, did you go out of your way to make Waves 11 and 12 more "competitive" than most typical waves to help encourage sales?

It might just be because Rÿchean and I were among the most active playtesters at the time.

GB, truth, and theGuru never said, "Hey, we want these guys to win tournaments."

To my knowledge, there was no such directive, but I personally tried to test them in (and have them face) solid armies.

So if you think stuff is too good, blame the playtesters. If you love how much fun you're having, congratulate the designers. This sounds like a joke, but I mean it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Just some further info, as Jexik said there never has been a mandate to make any one release or group of releases affect meta game or tournament scene or whatever you want to call it. However, Truth and co have all been a part of the tournament scene at certain intervals and they do have eyes. They have a pretty good idea of where some things might need tweaking.

Anyone with half a brain can look at the repulsors and tell that their design had to have some thoughts towards the meta game to come out the way they did, and of course they would be right. But that doesn't mean big wigs from on high said, "Hey, fix this!!" or "make this uber awesome!"; it is more the guys realizing there are opportunity areas and then making an effort to address them.

The real focus the guys have is to come up with fresh ideas, new mechanics, new ways of playing the game. I wouldn't call it pushing the envelope, necessarily, but more so giving us new things, stretching the bounds of the game, if you will, to allow for other mind sets and styles of play. Naturally these efforts can and will lead to some shift in the metagame. I think that is a good thing, for the most part, so long as there isn't anything too drastic.

The only other thing I want to add, is if you are impressed with the efforts in Wave 11 aka D1, you will be even more impressed with the ideas and concept put forth for Wave 12 and beyond. The guys are really thinking outside of the box and presenting unique ideas and units to the game. I think their efforts will invigorate the game in new ways, while building on the past.

You ain't seen nothing yet!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Minivann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
...You ain't seen nothing yet!!!!

Was there some announcement that I missed?

Nope, you didn't miss anything. There is no official announcement for anything beyond Wave 12. Working on something doesn't really mean anything other than there are things in the works. It doesn't necessarily mean anything comes of it. For example, I play tested Marvel Wave 1 quite a bit, but it is still no where to be found.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyOwl
When play testing, do you test on official maps (those released with rulebooks and scenarios) or special maps that are designed specifically for play testing?

We test new units on basic maps. I like to whip up a map from my imagination like a typical kid would, but many of the playtesters test on tourney maps, which is a really good way of doing it.

When we test scenarios, none of us like to test unfinished units on scenario maps because it throws everything off.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite-M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking
Why no elf love from the D&D world? You can't honestly say that making the eldrin, elves (but not wizards) would have somehow made them broken.

I like the Eladrin. Is there a problem with making Eladrin? We already have so many elves.

I think the question may be, "Why make them Eladrin, instead of Elves?"

I'm less familiar with D&D than I might be, but from what I've seen, Eladrin seem like they're functionally indistinguishable from Elves. Was it more out of a desire to emphasize the D&D-ness of the units, or out of a desire to make them less powerful than they would have been if they had been Elves, or what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rÿchean
It is more the former than the latter but not completely all of either.

Also the "desire" you speak of is often beyond the control of the unit design itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
If we had made them elves we would have been criticized for doing more elves. You do Marro and folks gripe about it. Others like Marro and want more. Go figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
If we had made them elves we would have been criticized for doing more elves. You do Marro and folks gripe about it. Others like Marro and want more. Go figure.

I can totally see that point and I hadn't considered it before.

My gripe with Eladrin is that all editions of D&D have had Elves as a main character race and then that changed for 4th Edition only. Eladrin do not represent D&D, just 4E. Every D&D Edition has it's new things, so I'm not railing against 4E. But Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and Half-Elves - those are the iconic D&D races that have stood the test of time, not some Johnny-Come-Lately Eladrin.

But the Elves of Feylund are D&D to me, so it's not like I'm lacking there so your point above wins the day. Variety is the essence of Heroscape.

Still, rankles a bit, that's all.

That is between you and D&D. I'm not that concerned with what came in which edition of D&D because the only thing that really matters is the current edition. Eladrin are a popular race in the current edition and offer something different. If we design a Duergar are folks going to be mad because we didn't make them a dwarf?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscape Elffy
Yes...

We have heard of two D&D releases this year. I've also heard that after Wave D2, we'll be getting another Wave of Classic after that. I've also heard that we'll be getting Classic and D&D waves, in an every-other-type fashion. Can any of this be confirmed?

Absolutely not. I am not sure who you're hearing this stuff from but it sounds like fiction to me.

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sport351
Did we get an estimate as to when D2's coming out? Probably too early, but I'm impatient. And waiting for my D1 to be received at HM is awful.

August

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom

Maybe a GenCon release? That would be very cool.

Wouldn't it though!?

===================================================

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob
Quote:
Originally Posted by cereal crusher
Second wind sounds great, I just have some questions.

1. Can a figure be third and fourth winded if they have are killed and have second wind success in every room?

yes, but you see what typically happens when you get too many heroes starting wounded is you have a tough time beating the room you are on. If your whole party is destroyed in a room, you lose and do not get second wind.

Quote:
2. If all skulls are rolled, are they are out of the campaign for good?
yes

Quote:
3. In the event of a heroes death, can the other heroes take the glyphs off of dead heroes before going into the next room?
the rules for dropping glyphs is in the rulebook.

Quote:
4. Would you recommend using second wind, instead of the one resurrection potion for the DnD master set's campaign?
Absolutely I say try it with the Master set scenarios.

[CheddarLimbo]

Great idea Ona!


Q: In testing, what did you find to be the optimal distribution between Heroes versus Monster/DM players in Dungeon Crawling type scenarios?

[Therrian]

First off, good idea Ona.

Second, the set looks cool and I am really looking forward to getting some new scape in early Jan...nice work team

On to my first question:

With the figures in the DND Master Set, it seems in some ways like an effort was made (other then the dwarf) to not create figures that would bond with existing figures we already have. Was this just to prevent things from being overpowered? Or with the set's focus on heroes, is the bonding abilities that dominate many army builds being phased out a bit?

[TheLorax]

Sort of related to Therian's question.

Q: With the exception of Othkurik and Tandros (and possibly exploding drow, we will see) the figures in this set are very hero-killer heavy. I understand that this set was designed with the dungeon crawl experience as the top priority. However, this is also supposed to be classic 'scape. With the understanding that Heroscape changes the meta-game by releasing new figures, rather than changing old ones, how does the DnD theme (with its dungeon crawl emphasis) hope to change the existing squad heavy metagame of more competitive Heroscape?

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Onacara

This thread is here so everyone can ask questions to Truth, Grungebob and theGuru (sorry if I left anyone out) regarding the design aspects of the new D&D Scape and any future Scape products (when they come out)

One important note about this thread...Once a question is answered do not continue to debate it or discuss it here. If you have a follow-up question for the design team then please ask it but if you want to simply disagree or agree then do it somewhere else. What we are asking of them is some insight into their "war room".

I think it will also be beneficial for those working on custom units to get an insiders look at the thinking process used for official units.


I will do my best to compile the pertinent questions and answers here in the first post.


So let's start....

Q: I was looking at the original cards from the D&D mini's used for the new figures and was wondering if the movement value of the Scape units directly correlate with the movement values from the originals? Or is this just a coincidence?

coincidence.

[Hahnarama]

Design team,

Where do babies come from?

[jschild]

Ok, here's my question.

With the fact that only 1 of the new figures truly synergized well with existing units (in the bonding type sense), should we expect some new bonding units (or similar) with the new waves coming out, or will most of the new bonding/synergy be contained within the new waves themselves?

[Grungebob]

The set was designed as a game where everything you need to play is in the box. If this is the only Heroscape product you buy, you will be fine with what is in the box. The expansion waves are designed differently.

[chas]

Without any specifics as to future product, what is the current general intent (or perhaps rough numerical proportion of your interest) in the upcoming design options of the future among the following possibilities:

1. Releasing new figures
2. Fixing or adding abilities/synergies to old figures
3. Releasing old figures still in the pipeline (such as the Gladiators)
4. Releasing new themes, terrain, scenarios, and other non-figure items

I realize things change and WOTC has its own priorities to give, but I'd really like to know what you have in mind in general, to the degree you can comment. This is not a sneaky way of asking for a reveal, but the thing I am actually most interested in regarding the evolution of the game as a player.

For example, in my own gaming for non-tournament play I've considered allowing certain special figure abilities that still have very limited application to apply instead to their current game army/party members, rather than only to Kyrie General, personality, or other more minor left hand descriptor categories that rarely get activated. Clearly there are still many old abilities and left hand side card descriptors that still anticipate figures that were never issued. (In one of the more popular cases, I'm now wonder if the 'More Undead' you've recently mentioned as upcoming in new D&D expansions in a thread will translate into my favorite request: 'I want bonding Mummies for Sudema,' although you can't comment on that specifically). Will some of these outstanding matters be resolved, or are they now a dead issue due to change in designers, companies, licensing, etc.?

[Onacara]

Originally Posted by chas

Without any specifics as to future product, what is the current general intent (or perhaps rough numerical proportion of your interest) in the upcoming design options of the future among the following possibilities:

1. Releasing new figures
2. Fixing or adding abilities/synergies to old figures
3. Releasing old figures still in the pipeline (such as the Gladiators)
4. Releasing new themes, terrain, scenarios, and other non-figure items

I realize things change and WOTC has its own priorities to give, but I'd really like to know what you have in mind in general, to the degree you can comment. This is not a sneaky way of asking for a reveal, but the thing I am actually most interested in regarding the evolution of the game as a player.

For example, in my own gaming for non-tournament play I've considered allowing certain special figure abilities that still have very limited application to apply instead to their current game army/party members, rather than only to Kyrie General, personality, or other more minor left hand descriptor categories that rarely get activated. Clearly there are still many old abilities and left hand side card descriptors that still anticipate figures that were never issued. (In one of the more popular cases, I'm now wonder if the 'More Undead' you've recently mentioned as upcoming in new D&D expansions in a thread will translate into my favorite request: 'I want bonding Mummies for Sudema,' although you can't comment on that specifically). Will some of these outstanding matters be resolved, or are they now a dead issue due to change in designers, companies, licensing, etc.?

Chas...while the Terrific Trio has a hand in the degining of future releases..they are not part of the business plan...and while they themselves may have plans to do such things..it's really up to the folks at WOTC how much more stuff they want to create and release as well as who will be doing the actual desiging.

[spiteofthedice]

The debate in the Deepwyrm Drow book is: Is a figure with OSD (Migol or Crixus) subject to the Drow's Poison Weapons?

It seems like they would be, since PW is a Special Ability and the target doesn't roll defense against it, but I want to make sure before I put it in the book.

Thanks team. The new stuff is great.

[Grungebob]

The most the figure can receive from that attack is one wound.