The Book of Ares

[Dysole]

I'm going to continue to toss this one around in my head. Not saying anything is currently broken, but I'm trying to see how I would try and break it and if that's going to be a problem.

~Dysole, observationally

EDIT: Ares is affected by his own aura right?

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Dysole

I'm going to continue to toss this one around in my head. Not saying anything is currently broken, but I'm trying to see how I would try and break it and if that's going to be a problem.

~Dysole, observationally

EDIT: Ares is affected by his own aura right?

He is not. He is not affected by any of the marker effects, except the part before the bullet points that's strictly on him. The +1 attack and move per marker and -1 defense per marker.

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I think I would drop it down to 3 markers and drop the last ability, I don't see why you would not be attacking anyway at that point of the game where he has 4 markers on his card. I guess someone could be choosing not to attack in order to try and remove a marker but I just don't see that as a viable strategy at all. You are better off just trying to kill off the figure you are engaged with than allowing them to continue to beat on you while you do nothing. I really, really like the no disengage power and would actually move that up to the first thing that becomes activated. Force ghostwalkers to stand and fight someone they don't really want to fight, then start adding boosts after that. I do think the markers should be coming into play fairly easily then with disengage being the first one, so maybe get rid of the d20 roll for adding them all together. Just every time a UH dies he adds a marker, but still roll for removing them when no wounds are inflicted.

The 4th marker makes it so your opponent may end up being forced into attacking an ally, if they end their turn adjacent to each other. It's also to force them into attacking figures they are engaged with in order to make it more likely a wound is caused rather than burning a turn just to get a marker off.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Arkham

The 4th marker makes it so your opponent may end up being forced into attacking an ally, if they end their turn adjacent to each other. It's also to force them into attacking figures they are engaged with in order to make it more likely a wound is caused rather than burning a turn just to get a marker off.

Lets start over. I didn't make my thoughts very clear on this earlier as I was in a bit of a rush. I have more time now.

The order of the marker granted powers seems reversed to me. You have the weakest and least useful power coming in last and the best and most impactful power coming first. His influence should start small and grow bigger as the battle wears on. So first up would be generating a blood lust in those around him, forcing them to attack any figure they happen to be adj. to be they friend or foe. Your opponent would have to start spreading out, breaking up pods and screens. Next marker has those around him unable to resist fighting any opponent they encounter, this prevents all figures from leaving an engagement. 3rd marker makes the blood lust so strong that they start ignoring defense, so eager they are to hurt their opponent they start to drop their guard, resulting in -1 def. for those around him. With the last marker the battle rage has reached a boiling point and they become ultra aggressive with their attacks, adding +1 to att. for those around him.

That makes sense to me both from a thematic and game play perspective. However, with this order I'd also want to see it more likely that he reaches the full potential of the design and so I'd just want to drop the d20 roll completely and give him a marker each time a UH dies. Since the 'must attack' and 'can't disengage' powers are the first two, those closest to him will be throwing attack dice often. With out the attack bonus or defense reduction though you should also end up rolling to remove a marker fairly often. Attacks get blocked all the time, it is only once you start reducing defense and adding to the attack that the chance for a no W turn decreases.

Then separately I was looking at the issue of trying to price him out. Right now with 4 markers you have Ares going from 6/6/7 move/att/def to 10/10/4 att/def. That seems like a pretty big swing to properly balance as you are not guaranteed to get all 4 markers on his card in a game but he will need to be priced as if he is moving 10 spaces and then throwing 10 attack dice at someone. The lower defense of 4 makes him somewhat vulnerable but with him healing 1W every time a UH gets killed, and with him throwing 10 attack dice while moving 10 spaces, he will be healing fairly regularly when combined with the staying power of 9 life. So I'd recommend a smaller swing of 3 markers in order to try and make it easier to keep him balanced and nail down a price. Especially if you take my first suggestion of making the marker placement automatic. More reliably going from 6/6/7 to 9/9/5 seems more manageable to me that unreliably going from 6/6/7 to 10/10/4. If you take this second suggestion to heart, I'd drop the 'must attack' power from the progression as it is the most minor. Or perhaps combine the 'must attack' with the 'no disengage' into one level.

Last suggestion I have is a new one I just though of but it would help you to deal with the multiple rolls to remove War markers per OM reveal you ran into with the Fan4. Why not limit it to 1 roll per OM reveal if no wounds were inflicted during that turn instead?

So something like this is what I'm suggesting.

GOD OF WAR
Anytime a Unique Hero or Event Hero is destroyed, immediately remove 1 Wound Marker from this card and place 1 black War Marker on this card, up to a maximum of 3. After an Order Marker is revealed, and all figure turns are resolved, if no figures received a wound during that turn you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, remove a War Marker from this card.

MALEVOLENT INFLUENCE
Add one to Ares' Move and Attack numbers, and subtract one from Ares' Defense number, for each War Marker on this card. If there is at least:

• 1 War Marker on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares cannot leave engagements and must attack an adjacent figure, if possible; and
• 2 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares subtract 1 from their defense; and
• 3 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares add 1 to their attack.

With those two powers the way they are now you should have enough room on the card for one more small power on the card.

[Dysole]

Okay. You will need to update the wording to say Ares is not affected by it. Both Raelin and Taelord use this language.

~Dysole, feeling like there may be other C3G figures that might need this update

[Arkham]

I believe the general C3G rule is that figures are not within clear sight of themselves. Invisible Woman's defense boost special specifically states that she gets the boost because of that reason. Cap and Star-Lord don't gain their own boosts etc. for other examples.

[Dysole]

Okay. Just expect that to potentially be confusing for people coming over from Classic Scape.

~Dysole, trying for some kind of standardization

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

Lets start over. I didn't make my thoughts very clear on this earlier as I was in a bit of a rush. I have more time now.

Not sure how likely it is that people will be on board with dropping the roll for the marker placement. That was suggested due to attempting to lessen the strategy of simply drafting the cheapest unique heroes and killing them with Ares to get full on markers early on. The Ant-Man figures and Atom etc. could easily be disposed of for all 3 markers quickly with little cost in points. However...there's several Unique Heroes 75 points and below, that have 3-6 life as well, so it's not exactly full proof, and may be best to just go without the roll with that in mind.

Leech @40 = 4
Spoiler @50 = 4
Destiny @55 = 6
Billy Batson @60 = 4
Bucky @60 = 4
Catgirl @60 = 4
Trickster @65 = 4
Trickster @70 = 4
So on and so forth...

I'm not totally against reversing the order of the marker effects, as well as lowering it to 3 markers and combining the no leaving engagement and must attack an adjacent figure aspects.

As for a 3rd power, there's a few options on the table in terms of what Ares can do that's currently not being represented, but ultimately I feel the theme of the character as-is, is already nailing his most thematic abilities. However, something simple I do feel would benefit the design greatly, is for him to be able to place Order Markers on destroyed figures onto his own card. I often found myself unsure of whether to take a turn with another figure or with Ares, so setting stuff up proved rather clunky on his side of things. If he could throw his own figures into situations where they may end up being killed, then he can profit with those unused turns, it'd feel a bit more in sync.

With that all said, I'd be open to something of the sort:

NAME = ARES

SPECIES = OLYMPIAN
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = WARLORD
PERSONALITY = MALEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 6

LIFE = 9

MOVE = 6
RANGE = 4
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = ~600

GOD OF WAR
Anytime a Unique Hero or Event Hero is destroyed, immediately remove 1 Wound Marker from this card, and place 1 black War Marker on this card, to a maximum of 3. If you control the destroyed figure's Army Card, you may immediately remove any unrevealed Order Markers from that card and place them on this card.

?????
After a figure takes a turn, if a figure did not receive a wound during that turn, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 5 or lower, remove a War Marker from this card.

MALEVOLENT INFLUENCE
Add one to Ares' Move and Attack numbers, and subtract one from Ares' Defense number, for each War Marker on this card. If there is at least:

• 1 War Marker on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares cannot leave engagements and must attack an adjacent figure after ending their movement, if possible; and
• 2 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares subtract 1 from their defense; and
• 3 War Markers on this card, figures within 6 spaces of Ares add 1 to their attack.

SUPER STRENGTH
FLYING

[Yodaking]

I forgot about the killing your own figures issue. Maybe just collect the war marker when an opponents UH is killed, your dead heroes will give you their OMs when they die, and all heroes still give you healing. The killing your own cheap UH figures is still viable but only for some self healing. I might draft a bunch of Beast Boy figures and Rancor him. Since it is only 1W instead of possibly 2W it should be okay, plus it isn't going to boost your war marker count.

[Arkham]

I feel the loss of your own figures aiding Ares' entire power kind of seals the whole design together though. I like the idea of Ares using everyone as pawns, even his own figures, and drafting him is going in with the idea that he's supposed to be the last one standing. Feels fitting and unique.

[Yodaking]

He is still using his own figures as pawns, they are the fodder he uses to destroy his opponents with and gain the War Markers. If he wants a few War Markers to boost his stats with before taking down Superman/Thor/Hulk he sends out his minions to attack and kill the opponents rank and file troops. You rush one hero out on a suicide mission (ie. keep feeding him/her all 3 OMs) to get as many kills as possible (hopefully UH's but your opponent may be using a common squad screen that you need to hack through before you can reach the heroes). Each UH kill gets Ares a War Marker, no d20 needed. When they fall Ares heals himself if wounded and picks up any unrevealed OMs (with an opponents hero hopefully already softened up) and Ares can go after the kill and the War Marker himself. As the War Markers get going, the deaths on both sides start coming faster, and the failed attacks happen less frequently. Might actually need to raise the 25% chance of removing a marker.

[All Your Pie]

Just popping in here--I'm not sure how unthematic or broken it would be if the design encouraged you to draft figures specifically for you to kill. Honestly I'm not sure it would be worth the investment in points and actually taking the time out to do that. If you wanted to avoid that, though, maybe you could find some way to specify that he can only get markers when a figure is destroyed by a figure in a different army? Maybe something like...

GOD OF WAR
Anytime a Unique Hero or Event Hero is destroyed by a figure controlled by a different player, immediately remove 1 Wound Marker from this card and place 1 black War Marker on this card, to a maximum of 3. After a figure takes a turn, if a figure did not receive a wound during that turn, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 6 or lower, remove a War Marker from this card.

I'm not sure how good the readability is on that, nor am I sure if it's actually a good idea--as far as I know, that sort of specificity has never been used before. It also rules out any terrain-based deaths, which I think is fine. It is kind of a shame in that it rules out pushing opponent's figures into lava or something, but it's clearly much more important to guard against the Ares player doing that themselves.

Also this version would still technically allow you to kill a teammate's figures. There might be a way to word it to prevent that, though.

I'm fairly neutral on the order marker thing. It does give you a more compelling reason to keep Ares in the fray during the battle as opposed to just bringing him up in the end, but the aura might already be sufficient for that, and the OM retrieval feels like an unnecessary complication.