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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books. |
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#121
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Go ahead and try him at 7 defense, I'll update the SP and we'll continue with that from here on out at Ronin's suggestion.
As for units to test with, anything that can potentially keep your opponent locked down away from Ares, as well as ranged units that can benefit from the attack boost such as Merlyn and Green Arrow. If you go back a couple of pages, you'll see some suggestions from the CRB. |
#122
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: (Insert Name Here) Army Test Map: Bad Moon Rising (BoV) Units: Ares(550), Wolverine(280), Deadpool(285), Sage(190), Armor(100), Wild Child(160), total 1495 VS Captain America(240), Ms. Marvel(350), Incredible Hulk(380), Fantomex(260), Kirigi(175), Vertigo(90), total 1495
Spoiler Alert!
___________________________________________________________ Army Test Map: Bad Moon Rising (BoV) Units: Ares(550), Merlyn(160), Hawkeye(2)(160), Mysterio(115), Holographs (35), S.H.I.E.L.D. Sniper (40), Iron Man Mk 1(70), total 1170 VS Magneto(2)(375), Mystique(2)(200), Gorgon(300), Destiny (55), Avalanche (145), Toad (95)
Spoiler Alert!
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Overall, Ares definitely has some swingy traits about him, but that I think just comes with the territory of figures that can heal themselves. The first game could have easily gone the other way, but the second one was a blowout, largely because the only figure batting in Ares's weight class just couldn't get the dice going. I do think he is balanced and appropriately costed, but it should be kept in mind that mid-range heroes will have a lot of trouble against him unless they have multiple normal attacks. 7 Defense felt right in these tests. Even with it, Fantomex still nearly took him out on his own. As for drafting him as part of a ranged pod, I just don't see it. Ares comes with such a big price tag that you'll really have trouble getting what you need both to support his aura and to protect your units. Ares himself has a big enough attack that, if you're drafting him, you'd much rather build your army around him then around a sniper like Merlyn. Once Ares was in the thick of things, I never wanted to put markers on my archers because he was fast enough to get where he needed to be and he was hitting harder. Ultimately, while one game was a blowout, I don't think any of the reasons for that necessarily indicate a problem, and in the other game he felt very fun and balanced. GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: The first game was really fun--I enjoy Ares's ability to make even games with rather high point totals move at a quick and exciting pace. It's always fun when in thinking about your moves, taking wounds isn't always a downside. For the opponent, while it's usually not worth forgoing an attack to remove a marker from Ares, it can be a nice bonus if its in your advantage to retreat and regroup anyway--something that feels very thematic, since Ares gets weaker when cool, tactical choices prevail. The only thing that worries me slightly is that, around Ares, double attack is king. If the opponent can't effectively leverage multiple attacks per OM, they may find themselves at a significant disadvantage. |
#123
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Great insights, thanks for the tests! Glad 7 defense felt right, and ultimately you felt he was balanced. As for the mid level heroes without multiple attacks struggling with him, I feel that's pretty reasonable with most high stat characters. However, I feel he gives just about anyone a shot with the attack boost, to break through and cause some wounds.
Good stuff and thanks for the quick turn around! |
#124
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
I'm thinking we could probably do with 3 more sets of tests at 7 Defense, and if all go smoothly, that should be enough. I'll likely be doing one of those sets. Overall though, he's looking good from all who have tested him.
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#125
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Saw you mention Ares in another thread, but I didn't want to derail that one. I'm still planning on running another set of games here, but I may not be able to hit him until early next week.
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#126
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Sounds good. Thanks for helping out with him.
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#127
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Here's a first test for Ares.
Name Of The Playtest Unit: Ares Army Test 1 Map: Conflict Chernobyl (no glyphs) Armies: Ares, Wolverine, Blob, Jubilee, Angel (Warren Worthington III), Wasp (vI), Hawkgirl (1,420 points) vs. Martian Manhunter (vII), Wonder Woman (vII), Hercules, Phobos (1,420 points)
Spoiler Alert!
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#128
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
- Theme Test - Pass - while I only know the DC version of the character from one Justice League Unlimited episode, he seems very accurate to his portrayal there, and, as a big fan of Greek Mythology, he seems too fit how I'd imagine the God being pretty well as well. The one thing that feels a bit off is how strong he is in comparison with other Gods I'd have imagined being stronger than him, but it's still probably accurate to his DC version and I can jusify it from a general perspective by saying that this is what Ares is like when he's been feeding off a lot of warfare lately - World War level stuff.
- Mirror Test - Pass, though two Ares's feeding off war and whipping up the people around them could get pretty insane pretty quickly. - Bonding Test - Pass - No synergies, unless you play Mixed and take him with the Romans! Not that we should remotely consider that, but that could actually be pretty fun, potentially - though you are then legally required to call him Mars. - Synergies Test - Pass - Again, no synergies in Superscape. - Power Check - Pass - He's pretty strong and really terrifying, but the fact that he's affecting you and your opponent equally tempers him somewhat. - Fun Test - Definite Pass - He's colossal amounts of fun to play - every battle becomes an utter bloodbath! - Fun Competitive Test - Definite Pass - With fights this fast paced and brutal, it's hard not to have fun. - Drafting Test - Pass - He's certainly a fun unit to build an army around. - Usage Test - Pass - All of his powers got a decent amount of use - I was particularly pleasantly surprised by how useful the 3 War Marker effect was for keeping Ares safe and forcing the enemy to remain tied up with expendable peons whose deaths would feed Ares. - Strategy Test - Definite Pass - You have to be thinking and making the most of his powers all the time with him. He’s incredibly strategic, and the feeling you were talking about of the battle being all about him with everyone else being not only expendable, but merely fresh meat to add to the grinder that you almost want to die is certainly there. Name Of The Playtest Unit: Ares Army Test 1 Map: Conflict Chernobyl (no glyphs) Armies: Ares (550), Wolverine, Blob, Jubilee, Angel (Warren Worthington III), Wasp (vI), Hawkgirl (1,420 points) vs. Martian Manhunter (vII), Wonder Woman (vII), Hercules, Phobos (1,420 points)
Spoiler Alert!
Army Test 2 Map: Arctic Divide (No Glyphs) Armies; Ares (550), Red Skull (C3G), Doctor Octopus, Deadpool, Jubilee, Ant-Man (Hank Pym), 3x Fire Ant Swarms, 1x Killer Bee (1,405 points) vs. Professor X, Magneto (vII), Psylocke, Gorgon (Tomi Shishido), Beast, Angel (Warren Worthington III) (1,405 points)
Spoiler Alert!
Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility: I absolutely love him! As I do many times, I feel like I’ve already said pretty much everything already. Just a couple of little things: 1) I love that the 3 War Marker effect forces you, specifically, to attack. I originally thought it was a weird but perhaps necessary theme break to say they can’t instead use damaging special powers such as Magnetic Assault, but it works perfectly as representing them being too blinded by rage to think clearly about the best plan of attack. 2) I’d make it so that a War Marker got placed whenever a Hero is wounded or destroyed - there aren’t many auto-destroy powers in superscape, but there’s a handful, and I feel like it should trigger if Gorgon manages to turn Spider-Man to stone or Magneto dunks Batman into a bath of lava. Last edited by Lazy Orang; June 25th, 2017 at 11:49 AM. |
#129
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Thanks for the tests!
I'm thinking 1 more set of tests for him, if close, could be enough to send him through. Otherwise, maybe 2 sets if there's still some concerns. I think we're pretty close on points given that those that have tested him feel he's pretty well balanced and fun as-is, with perhaps a point bump as the only needed adjustment to close it out. We'll see what the next set of games results in for him to determine what kind of point change we should make. I'm thinking 20-40 is the window we're looking at. |
#130
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Ares Army Test Map: Custom Units: Ares, Walker x5, Skrull Infiltrator x5, Kraven, Atom, Ragdoll, Kid Flash, Angel (Warren) (1400) vs Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer (C3G) (1400)
Spoiler Alert!
___________________________________________________________ Army Test Map: Custom Units: Ares, Cable, Deadpool, Jason Voorhees, Invisible Woman, Professor X, Wolverine (2000) vs Captain America (C3G), Rover, Ms. Marvel, Red Tornado, Blink, Doctor Doom (C3G), Sif, Baron Zemo (Helmut) (2000)
Spoiler Alert!
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Couple wins this time. Definitely a fun play, with some flexibility in how you can take advantage of Malevolent Influence. Haven't been that keyed into how the overall results are looking, but he feels really good mechanically, so I'd just fiddle with the cost based on how he's been showing. |
#131
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Thanks for the tests again!
Ok, so he went: 0-3 at 6 Defense at 550 5-1 at 7 Defense at 550 So clearly that Defense boost helped him tremendously. It's worth noting that even on his wins, every tester felt he was balanced, fun, and not broken. Several of his wins were also by minor, low point characters remaining. I'm thinking we'll raise his point value to 580. I'd imagine we'll want more tests, at least another set or two at that point value. |
#132
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Re: The Book of Ares (Public Playtesting)
Raising his points sounds like a good plan now that you are happy with how he performs. He is an Event Hero after all so being expensive kind of comes with the territory.
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