The C3G Cave - Hangout

[IAmBatman]

I think one of the things that really kills the big two for me is the lack of consequences. When every death can be easily retconned or undone and every event basically ends with things returned to status quo, you start to realize that nothing leading up to the resolution really mattered all that much.

For instance I followed the Batman/Catwoman wedding as a casual observer, but never picked up a book, because somewhere in the back of my head I knew that they'd never actually let one of their big characters change in any significant or interesting ways.

There was a while there where I really wanted Bruce Wayne to just stay dead and for Dick Grayson to be the longterm Batman with Damian as his Robin just so there'd be an actual change and actual consequences for things. But, naturally, big return of Bruce Wayne event and everything goes back to how it was, more or less.

Definite vote for 2000 AD comics in that regard.

[MrNobody]

That’s why I was kinda annoyed when John Constantine was ported over to the DC universe proper again. They took a character with years of stories where there were actual consequences and moved him over to the main DC where they took a lot of steps to alter him so he’d be a better product to sell on TV shows or movies like Superman or Batman. I’ve heard it’s gotten better since then, but it was really off-putting to younger me.

[johnny139]

That's one of the reasons I liked (for all its faults) the Ultimate line. No resurrections, status quo changes all stuck, big events were REALLY big events. Wolverine gets smoked by Magneto and it's permanent. Reed Richards turns evil and it's a big deal. Spider-Man dies and it... well actually Bendis reversed that one at the very end but that's the one exception.

It's just a shame the books themselves ended up kinda trash. With some notable exceptions.

Like, Ultimatum went off the rails, but it's still the best first issue of an event book I've ever read. It's just NYC, everyone going about their day and then... BOOM. Tidal wave. Half the X-Men are killed. Spider-Man just barely survives. They pull Daredevil - DAREDEVIL - out of the rubble in a random issue of USM and he's just another body. It feels as big as it should.

Meanwhile Secret Empire has the US taken over by Nazis, the entire geopolitical system is upended... and in six months everything's back to normal.

[Ronin]

That was kind of a neat aspect of the Ultimate U, but I really didn't care for the Ultimate takes on a lot of characters. My favorite superheroes, but they're all scumbags, what a treat.

I guess the one exception to the scumbag rule was Ultimate Spider-Man, who was if anything, too nice, and felt really flat as a character in comparison to the original.

[Tornado]

40 years of Dredd. No retcons.
It is all just waiting for you.

[johnny139]

Woe unto them that do not like jerk-ass superheroes. I always lean on the side of bad people who make for bad superheroes. (Though bald, super-powerful cosmic guys who are out of step with humanity are a close second.)

[IAmBatman]

I mean, do they have to be bald?

[johnny139]

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Woe unto them that do not like jerk-ass superheroes. I always lean on the side of bad people who make for bad superheroes. (Though bald, super-powerful cosmic guys who are out of step with humanity are a close second.)

I like jerks that are complex and were always meant to be jerks. I'm the Thunderbolts guy, remember? Reinventing every character in the Marvel U as a shallow jerk is less appealing to me.

[ALEXAN2507]

And the week is coming to an end which means C3G Wave 5: World's Vilest digital edition is officially complete

Doctor Light was a pain in the ass, I had to physically crop him out of a comic book panel

[Tornado]

Nice work. MODOK is sick.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, very nice! Really enjoyed that wave at the time. Seems a little more oddball now. That last booster rocks, though.