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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #25  
Old February 17th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

I think Master Motivator combined with the HYDRA Agents is where he's really going to start earning some points.
His special attack wasn't really going to be worthwhile in any of those tests you mentioned, so, yeah, I could see him not looking real tough so far.

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  #26  
Old February 17th, 2011, 10:18 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Spidey, when you get a chance, could you link the Cosmic Cube to the OP here for easier reference? Thanks.

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  #27  
Old February 17th, 2011, 11:43 PM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

C3G PLAY TEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Red Skull with Cosmic Cube Glyph

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them. Pass

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game. Pass (as long as you have 2 Cosmic Cube glyphs)

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding. Pass

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.Pass

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any. Pass

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play. Pass

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against. Pass

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
Pass (He will be especially useful with HYDRA/Terrorist faction)

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable. Pass

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game. Pass

- Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .Pass. He feels closer to 180-190 one on one, though the map can make a difference of how easy or difficult it is to retrieve the Cube after it’s knocked away from him. Glyph placement is key when knocking it off of Red Skull's card.

Spoiler Alert!

- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .Pass. Felt closer to 190 vs. squads, though a flatter map might make it easier to retrieve the Cube after it’s knocked away, but that would also come at a price of giving up height advantage and making it easier for opponent’s to engage and possibly get height. So he probably had the advantage on this map and might not have fared as well on a flatter map where the opponent could get height on him.

Map: .X Marks The Spot
Units: .Red Skull vs. Hand Ninja x 3 (180-210 points w/o bonding but closer to 180 on this map vs. ranged unit with multiple attacks on top of building)

Spoiler Alert!




- Squad / Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .
Map: .X Marks The Spot
Units: .Red Skull vs. Thugs x 3 (180-195 w/o bonding, though closer to 195 on concrete/asphalt map like this)


Spoiler Alert!



- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .PASS but perhaps I’ll bump RS up to 220 for next test. The results were huge for him this game, but that’s with Madame HYDRA and her Agents adding a lot of synergy, not to mention the opponents didn’t have much firepower with multiple attacks and I learned not to feed Red Skull with easy wounding/killing figures to activate Master Manipulator.

Map: .X Marks The Spot
Units: .Red Skull (200) Hulk (370) Madame HYDRA (140) Hydra Agents x 3 (240) for 950 points.

Vs.

Doctor Doom (375) Doombots x 3 (285) Mole Man (100) Moloids x 12 (120) Shadow Thief (70) for 950 points.

Spoiler Alert!




- Army Test/ Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary. .PASS but I’d bring him back down to 200-210. He didn’t have advantage of bonding with HYDRA Agents this game and didn’t have multiple attackers to help him, but the ease of knocking the Cube away from him or stealing it can bring his cost down.
Map: .Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh
Units: Red Skull (220) Doom (375) Doombots x 3 (285) and Magma (170) for 1050 points.

Vs.

Deathstroke (280) Punisher (180) Madame HYDRA (140) HYDRA Agents x 3 (240) Puppet Master (140) and Shadow Thief (70) for 1050 points.

Spoiler Alert!

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; March 16th, 2011 at 10:53 PM.
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  #28  
Old February 17th, 2011, 11:45 PM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

I didn't include the previous HH tests that I did before making the change to Cosmic Cube to be used "after moving" instead of "before moving" as I didn't think they were relevant any longer as he was getting smoked the old way and it was really a handicap using the Cube before moving.

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3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #29  
Old February 18th, 2011, 03:31 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Links to Cosmic Cube Thread and Hahma's playtest posted.

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  #30  
Old February 18th, 2011, 09:19 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

I think 190 is seeming reasonable so far given his whole army synergies that weren't part of the previous tests.
Also, it's hard to tell whether he'd be able to hold his own against any heroes in the 180-210 range, since all the tests were done against lesser heroes (and he won all of them except against Elektra, who D20'd him!).
I think it's worth putting him at 190 for the army tests and seeing how he holds up to that value.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #31  
Old February 18th, 2011, 09:47 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Yeah I was thinking 190-200 for army tests. I could run some more HH tests with higher priced HH's but I had done so before and despite the after moving change to the Cosmic Cube, I don't think it would make it that great of a difference vs. the higher priced HH's. Punisher has equal lives and defense and a nasty Rocket attack that's the same range as Red Skull's Dual Lugers and his AR out ranges Red Skull by 2 and it's 3 attacks. Cyclops certainly out ranges him and would force Red Skull to even ground on this map. All of Red Skull's attack options are within Batman's Evasive Strike range. Black Canary can't out range him, but if she forces him into melee combat he could be toast, plus she doesn't need clear sight for Canary Cry and can hide and force him to her level.

He barely beat Iceman at 150 and had some great luck vs. Venom to block a 4 skull attack with 4 shields out of 5 defense dice and then blocked another attack before using the CC to place a final wound on Venom (one of two he put on him in that manner). He could have easily lost the CC especially against that 4 skull attack where he already had 2 wounds and lost the CC to ground level from the top of the building. So I could see that either way, as Venom smoked him in the previous test before the minor change to the CC which really didn't come into affect here in this game. I also could have tested him against Green Arrow at 150 and he'd definitely lose the height advantage that the CC gave him by teleporting him to the top of the structure as Green Arrow could just sit back at 10 spaces and fire away.

I think he can have his moments against the higher priced HH's, but I'm thinking that his bread and butter is going to be in army play and how he can use the Cosmic Cube to move around OM's on opponent's cards, remove wounds from himself or his teammates to place on opponent's cards and even to teleport a teammate like Blob into adjacency with an opponent or a ranged unit like Green Arrow or Punisher to height. Sure he can get the CC knocked off, but unless he's going against another Mastermind or Ruler, he can get the Cube back. Of course the map will often dictate how easily he can get it back. The opponent can throw it in lava, across a river, onto a very high spot that he'd have trouble getting to or into adjacency with Blob, Mystique or Electro.

Actually, I was thinking of a strategy with him and Madame HYDRA where he can even pass it to her. As long as she has HYDRA Agents adjacent to her, she wouldn't lose the Cube from any wounds from an attack where she rolls defense as she can destroy an Agent. So she could hang onto it longer and even use it to teleport Red Skull into better position to try to use Master Manipulator when bonding with the Agents so hopefully put a wound on the opponent and get Madame HYDRA to get a turn with Cube again and her normal attack. So that can be a pretty sweet combo.

Edit: On the flip side, you really don't want to make Madame HYDRA your enemy if you control Red Skull. For all the benefits she offers in his army, she can use those against him if she's in the other army.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; February 18th, 2011 at 10:12 AM.
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  #32  
Old February 18th, 2011, 10:14 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

I think with the Cosmic Cube he'd have a fair chance against Daredevil, Jean Grey, Black Canary, and Batman. Maybe even Captain America. Punisher would definitely put the beat down on him, but ... he's Punisher.

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  #33  
Old February 18th, 2011, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Well I'll run some of those tonight or in the morning then, just to have a better range of opponents.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #34  
Old February 18th, 2011, 10:19 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Cool. Thanks!
I've got to get going on my tests today as well ...

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  #35  
Old February 19th, 2011, 10:29 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
I think 190 is seeming reasonable so far given his whole army synergies that weren't part of the previous tests.
Also, it's hard to tell whether he'd be able to hold his own against any heroes in the 180-210 range, since all the tests were done against lesser heroes (and he won all of them except against Elektra, who D20'd him!).
I think it's worth putting him at 190 for the army tests and seeing how he holds up to that value.

You missed the second Sentinel test where the Sentinel beat him.

I updated the test sheet with 7 more HH tests for a total of 12. I ran out of time to do Black Canary or Magma as I have to start cleaning and getting ready for the girls' B-Day party with the family (last week was with their little friends).

But I found some new strategies for and against him and that Cube. I bumped his value to closer to 180-190 vs. HH. as there are several lower priced melee units he'd own.

I won't have time to do an army test today, so I'll do one early tomorrow morning. I've been sick all week and can't stay up late to do too much at a time unfortunately, so I'll just keep at it as time and hacking/coughing/sneezing/etc. etc. etc. permits.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #36  
Old February 19th, 2011, 10:41 AM
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Re: The Book of C3G Red Skull - Design Phase

I think he's smelling like 180 so far.

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