The Book of Flash (Barry Allen)

[Griffin]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

If he can only move 2 before attacking is there that much of a problem? He could move 2 onto a really close enemy and than attack him, but it wouldn't let him attack an asinine amount of enemies.

I don't think that the SA with a move is broken, I just think that not allowing him to move for the SA helps balance the rest of the card. I would like to ask why is it important to you to have him be able to move for the SA if he would only move 2 or 3 spaces though. With that little movement, what is really the point or benefit? Why is that so important?

Originally Posted by Master Tang

If you made it with no movement, then any enemy figure that has a power that lets them attack and disengage (Al a Carte NightCrawler) or any enemy figure that has a disengage power and a ranged attack (Silver Surfer)would never be able to be hit by his SA(even with the 2 move it would still be tough).

So your saying that there would be a few interesting counters? What is the problem with that? That is a good thing from what I can tell.

Originally Posted by Master Tang

Also if the 250pt Flash can lay waste to 45pt Civilians and 60 pts Zombies I do not see the problem.

He should lay waste 60 points of Zombies, but against 250 points of Zombies, it should be a somewhat fair fight if you want the game to be balanced.

[Master Tang]

The 2 move isn't too big, but I think being able to move 2 spaces into a more advantageous position would be better for him.

I think there is a point where certain squads (zombies) just don't stack up to Superscape. Like Iron Man vs Zombies would be in favor of Iron Man and I think he would lay waste to them as well, but I see your point.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

For his defense power how about HYPER REACTION? That would be generic enough to put on cards and Flash could have a Hyper Reaction to an attack and dodge it. I think Speed Dodge just sounds so vanilla that it doesn't taste right when talking about Flash.

If he can only move 2 before attacking is there that much of a problem? He could move 2 onto a really close enemy and than attack him, but it wouldn't let him attack an asinine amount of enemies. If you made it with no movement, then any enemy figure that has a power that lets them attack and disengage (Al a Carte NightCrawler) or any enemy figure that has a disengage power and a ranged attack (Silver Surfer)would never be able to be hit by his SA(even with the 2 move it would still be tough).
Also if the 250pt Flash can lay waste to 45pt Civilians and 60 pts Zombies I do not see the problem.

From a personal stand point, I like the name, however, I also think Speed Dodge 4 is really good for these reasons.
a) It says what it does. Isn't this what we are striving for? I mean Flying is very plain but once we understand the power, we can imagine it the way we want. I mean Darkseid and Supes both have flying, but I don't see them flying the same in my head. Supes does the horizontal thing whereas Darkseid more walks on air. Same here. Once I understand the power, I can think in my head, well Flash Speed Dodges because he is the Fastest Man Alive, but the name of the power still allows for a wide range of movement, with the flavor added in via imagination.
b) It allows for some tweaking. I have stated in this thread that I don't think all Speedsters should have the exact same powers and here is a case where this power allows some tweakage. So Quicksilver is fast, but nowhere near Flash-level fast, so instead of Speed Dodge 4 he gets Speed Dodge 2 or 3. This shows that while he dodges via his Superspeed, he isn't as fast as Flash and therefore doesn't move as far as quickly either.
c) I liked Speed 4 previously because Flash could Speed away, or if I said it fast and carelessly enough it sounded like Speed Force. (I know I am a lame theme freak, but admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery. )

Hope that helps!

[Griffin]

I really like Speed 4 as well, but Speed Dodge 4 is good, great, better, best even.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Okay, I want to offer a tweaked new version of Fist Fusillade. Here goes:
FIST FUSILLADE SPECIAL ATTACK
RANGE 1, ATTACK 1,2,3,4.
Instead of moving and attacking with Flash you may choose to use Fist Fusilade Special Attack. Start the attack with a number of attack dice equal to Flash's current movement number. You may move Flash up to 3 spaces before attacking with Fist Fusillade Special Attack. Flash may attack using 1,2,3, or 4 dice to roll attack until all attack dice have been used. Flash may not use Superspeed during Fist Fusilade Special Attack.

This allows for a small movement before attacking, BUT Flash cannot move across water to make this attack or through figures and would take leaving engagement attacks to use his SA. Also, he would only be able to move a short distance (which I could see even lowering to 2) to maximize Fist Fusillade's usefulness. Please also notice, the use of dice to keep track of movement has been removed several versions ago. I really like the idea of both his movement and this power reducing as he takes wounds though, so I will fight to keep it.

EDIT: Also, I had originally wanted 12 to be his move, so he never was slower than Supes who was our fastest character at the time. Then I tweaked him to always be faster than GL who could move with 9 at his highest. However, I have just realized that Flash will never even get to 9, because he will die first. (My math was off. Bad Spidey! Bad!) So, I was thinking of dropping him to 12 movement. Thoughts?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Hahma

Hmm...Magneto is 300+ 4 life guy.

Touche. I do think Magneto is in a bit of a danger zone, though when it comes to design. And he's probably a bit more delicate than we want 300+ heroes to be most of the time.

Originally Posted by Master Tang

For his defense power how about HYPER REACTION?

That sounds like something kids have when they've eaten too much sugar. A hyper reaction.

Originally Posted by Griffin

I really like Speed 4 as well, but Speed Dodge 4 is good, great, better, best even.

Glad you and Spidey like it. I would've quoted Spidey too, but too much text.
Is there a current version of this card at all? We've been doing a lot of talking but I'm not even sure what the current version of this card is at all right now, so I'm going to refrain from commenting on much for a bit (until it's clear what the current version is ...).

Edit: I got Spidey'd - at least for the one power - still, any chance of getting everything written up together? Or is the front page currently up to date? I'm not sure.

[Griffin]

We need front page confirmation.

[UtgarsWorstFear]

I agree that the move of 3 before the special would be kinda worthless, but I liked the original idea of him moving and hitting as he runs by. The only problem with it was that it was WAY to many spaces he could hit.

This is why i dont see why you dont go with something like moriko's ninjutsu barrage special attack. This just seems like the perfect compromise to me because: you still get to move slightly on his special and it doesnt feel like a pointless move of 3 before hand, it is limited to 3 spaces, and it makes your regular attack look better against heros because you cant attack the same figure more than once. (you may even want to take that part out somehow and use the dice limit).

[Spidey'tilIDie]

First page updated with latest wording.

[Master Tang]

Just as a possible suggestion have you guys thought about changing Superspeed?
I was thinking that it would also help with scaling elevations like Expert Climbing on the Catwoman card. I believe this fits thematically with Flash running up walls,buildings, ect. At the very least allow him to ignore his height when it comes to climbing.
That's just my own thoughts take it or leave it.
Other than that I think the Flash card looks excellent and I can't wait to help playtest.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Master Tang

Just as a possible suggestion have you guys thought about changing Superspeed?
I was thinking that it would also help with scaling elevations like Expert Climbing on the Catwoman card. I believe this fits thematically with Flash running up walls,buildings, ect. At the very least allow him to ignore his height when it comes to climbing.
That's just my own thoughts take it or leave it.
Other than that I think the Flash card looks excellent and I can't wait to help playtest.

I think you want to be careful not to make it so mechanically like flying that it starts playing exactly like flying.

[IAmBatman]

I think a static number for the special attack would work a lot better ... this line:

"Start the attack with a number of attack dice equal to Flash's current movement number."

raises several questions for me, like:

1) If he can't move at all this turn, wouldn't his movement number be 0, technically?

2) If he's on a road tile, does he get three extra attack dice?

3) If Eldgrim is on his card, does he get an extra attack?

4) If he moves those three spaces, does that reduce his attack value by three?

Some of the answers to these questions could probably be assumed if you read the card really carefully, whereas for some I think it's completely unresolved by the card text. All of these questions could be avoided by just giving him 12 attack dice standard.