C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

[vegietarian18]

I guess frustrating is the proper word, Rats are more annoying but you at least can kill them and make progress. In my tournament game against these guys, I was happy to kill one per round, and I was playing a four-man squad.

I agree with Orc that HSB are overrated especially the combo of them with Rats. Other overrated figures:

Deathcommander Mark 3: 12.3% chance to flat out die to any attack of 4, and 30.8% to lose half of his life. He's not even high variance defense, he's just fragile.
Mok: A 255 point (assuming you don't have to feed him even more dwarves) worse Nilfheim.
Omnicron Snipers: No matter what point cost you play at, paying 100 points for 3 figures with 3 defense and 1 life is pretty horrible.
Microcorp Troopers: Compared to the Harqs, they have +1 defense, -Wait then Fire, +Heavy Weapons, -Kato synergy + Laglor synergy + Hard Targets. About fair for 20 points more per squad, but Harqs are B and they are A-.
Shurrak: I'm not sure how this guy climbed as high in the rankings as he did. He's like Eltahale but without Thunderstep, and a worse special attack, for 20 more points. I guess someone must really like Knockback? I don't even know.

[Dysole]

Well I think Harqs are underrated but that's just me. ~_^

~Dysole, who really thinks having a squad with a ranged SA is what boosts the Troopers

[OEAO]

Another thing that should be a B but is B+ is Water Elemental. They should not be the same rank as Fires. They simply aren't good, even though they are one of both mine and my dad's favorite units.

[dok]

Some good feedback on underrated/overrated units there guys. I do like the rat/HSB combo but B+ might be a bit of a push.

To give a serious response on Tagawa Samurai - they are better than their given ranking in a "B or less" environment, because the large majority of figures that are good against them (i.e. range that can easily get 4 dice, or high-attack special attacks) are not available. They are easily a B+ performer in that metagame, if not an A-. But that metagame is not typical.

[Cleon]

I have some suggestions and thoughts on changes in the rankings, but I want to save them until after GenCon.

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by Sir Dendrik

I'd like to nominate the Tagawa Samurai for B+.

We just had Islandscape, which was a B or lower tournament this year. The Tagawa Samurai just seemed a hair above the other units, imo. I had the Tagawa Samurai and every game that I made a point to use them they tore through half of the opponent's 510 point army (Sherman Davies's 4x? Resistance Fighters and a bit of Tandros Kreel's life, and nearly all of Chas's Protector of Ullar/Taelord/Agent Carr army). An opponent used the Tagawa Samurai against me and tore through most of my 4 squads of Ashigaru Harbeques, though I expected that would be a bad match up for the Samurai.

For your consideration.

Originally Posted by OrcElfArmyOne

I would have to agree with Sir Dendrik, Tagawa Samurai are very strong, and were in the 3rd and 4th place armies. They should at least be a B, B- is much too low. Tomoe an Tagawa is a strong option at 230 points, as HoundsRule took 3rd with them alongside 3x Marrden Hounds and Otonashi.

I also feel like Gorrilatroopers are B+ material. I've felt this way for a long time, and they are very strong. I've beaten many A armies with 2x Gorrilatroopers, Zaeus, and Augamo. I took 1st with 2x Gorrilatroopers, Zaeus, 3x Warriors of Ashra, and Kyntella Gwyn. The versatility of them is so strong, as a major range threat or insane melee tanks.

I think that a number of figures are "B" or lower rated because they play well against certain armies (but not against other armies). When I played Microcorp against the Tagawa and Tomoe, the Tagawa and Tomoe died without inflicting a wound. Admittedly, the Microcorp got height (and some good rolls), but this was a bad matchup for the Tagawa and Tomoe. The Gorillitroopers beat my Microcorp as the Microcorp were unable to get height, didn't get the good rolls they got earlier and were well played by OrcElfArmyOne. Against a special attacker, the Gorillitroopers would likely die very quickly. They don't have a special attack or the range to bypass a rat screen. I am guessing that a melee squad like the steamroller would take down a Gorillitrooper army as well (it would be fun to play). I'm not saying they are a bad army (especially since I lost to them), but they are more opponent dependent than many higher ranked figures.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Well I think Harqs are underrated but that's just me. ~_^

It's not just you. Ban the 4th and 10th and I think Harqs are recognized as a top tier squad. Having said that, you'd have to ban the 4th and 10th which both do similar things and are both better. If space weren't at a premium, maybe you can make an argument. 5*Harq/3*Rats/Rae is terrifying. It's also 33 spaces.

~Aldin, space invader

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by vegietarian18

Microcorp Troopers: Compared to the Harqs, they have +1 defense, -Wait then Fire, +Heavy Weapons, -Kato synergy + Laglor synergy + Hard Targets. About fair for 20 points more per squad, but Harqs are B and they are A-.

I feel +1 defense and hard targets makes them way stronger. Harquebus are "weak" compared to other 4 men ranged squads because they are too fragile and thus can't use Wait then Fire properly.
The Kato synergy is irrevelant as you've to pay the enormous Kato cost.

The Microcorps Troopers are definitely stronger I think the rankings are fair.

I also disagrre with the HSB because they have great stats and very usefull power and they combo well with a lot of top tier units such as reavers, Raelin, Kravs. They are not as strong as Heavies or Knights for sure but with some good rolls they can destroy pretty much anything. I think B+ is fair.

I agree with the rest of your statement and I feel there is much more overrated units.

The Knights of Blackgaard should be pushed to B+, just because 3x Blackgaard + Incendiborgs is an extremly strong army that fits in most formats.

[Rich10]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

The Knights of Blackgaard should be pushed to B+, just because 3x Blackgaard + Incendiborgs is an extremly strong army that fits in most formats.

I played the Knights of Blackgaard against the Steamroller and found that the Steamroller had a slight advantage over the Knights. I didn't include the Incendiborgs in the battle, but I think that the Incendiborgs are good in a number of builds. "B" seemed right to me.

[Foudzing]

Originally Posted by Rich10

I played the Knights of Blackgaard against the Steamroller and found that the Steamroller had a slight advantage over the Knights. I didn't include the Incendiborgs in the battle, but I think that the Incendiborgs are good in a number of builds. "B" seemed right to me.

Play 3x Blackgaard +Incendiborgs and you'll see, it's clearly a top tier army in 16 figures format. Which is the most common now.

The thing is the Incendiborgs are the only good thing to pair with Blackgaard as it's the only Relentless ranged unit. And moreover VI are insanely good so...

[Cleon]

Any thoughts on the stuff yet to be ranked?

I haven't played with any of these figs yet except Bramcephys, but here are some opinions:

20th Maine Volunteers - There's a ton of intriguing things you can do with these guys. Gilbert moving them into height or adjacency (or preferably both) while running knights and keeping only the X on them looks strong. A Raelin/Marcus pod is another. Maybe even delve into a Jandar soldier army. I think I really have to give them a shot to rank but they're definitely not bad. B+/A-

53th North Carolina Sharpshooters - I think they are what Deadeye Dan aspired to be haha. They also have a lot of cool strategic ideas. A Laglor/rat build will be annoying to deal with, especially on the right map. They could be helpful cleanup after a wave of venocs in a scout army. Or maybe long range backup with Mohicans? Need to see it in action. B+

Achillean Gladiatrix - The gladiators need more options to combat more matchups, and her potential roll is really nice, but 40pt. is a pain to work with for the gladiators. I desperately wish she was 30/35pt., or make her weaker and at like 20pt. In higher point games she'll be available and much more practical. But in common tournaments she's difficult to make room for. B- maybe B if higher point totals

Asterios - I think Asterios is of my favorite units to come out of C3V so far. I just love him thematically. And he's not bad at all. Not quite as nuts as the Hydra, but I think he can fit a similar 120pt. role in certain armies. B+

Beorn Boltcutter - Very cool hero for the Dwarves. His upgrade ability is cool but it's really only powerful with Zetacron (but it's a sick combo, not really complaining, Zetacron's good); you could use one of the Q's and try to play more of a defensive long range game I suppose. When more soulborgs that are powerful normal attackers arrive he'll shine more, but for now Zetacron's you're man. Sabotage is great for some matchups making him a pretty good small hero running around nonetheless. B

Bramcephys - The most expensive figure in 'scape, and what a beast he is. In the competitive seen of common squads and screens he faces some limitations, but I think as long as the map doesn't suck he'll do good damage. In certain matchups and scenarios he could be as high as an A fig imo but overall I think a B+ is a safe call. Really fun to field. B+

Cormin the Dark - A cool figure but I don't know how good he'll be in a competitive environment. Pretty good with a lot of rats on your side though. I originally thought he was better, I thought you could use Facade more than once per turn, but it's limited to only one, and one attempt. 75pt. isn't too too pricey, but I can't get passed only 4 life 2 defense. And Stab in the Back obviously doesn't help any. B-

Garret Burns - A unit that causes trouble for the Krav and Trons and such is neat but he just doesn't cut it. He's not a powerful enough fig to do damage himself, nor be able to threaten with the Quick Shot ability, thus making it very avoidable. C+

Jarek Guy - The Mariedian army is coming together. A solid hero altogether, in and outside of a Mariedian build. I hope to see more synergy with the faction. B/B+

Josie Whistletop - She reminds me a lot of Moriko and that's not a good thing haha. . She's definitely better but still weak. Taelord/Laglor is actually powerful but that's a lot to invest in a figure that's only 2 defense/5 life. Maybe if Lawmen/Outlaws get some synergy they'll be stronger. B-

Prince al'Kahora - A pretty solid stand alone hero. If he ever gets some sort of bonding he'll be great. B

Red Ants of Aunstrum - I wish I had these guys, I think they're actually pretty nice. It's just hard to dislike a four squad that's 40pt.; they have movement, they have efficiency, and they have attack. Plus Marcus (and enough points to enter into a Roman build). B+

Seleena - A decent fig to add to your Skahen agent build. B

Teeth of the Makwa - I like these dudes a lot. The whole scout/mohican army continues to get cooler. I'm hoping another tribesman hero is released soon (which I'm expecting will happen). I might be a tad overrating them because of the hype, but they're certainly viable. B+

Tomb Skeleton Archers - Like their melee companions, they're both slow and weak. They're cheap though. Maybe they'll tie the skeleton army together further down the road (possibly also involving Warden 816 would be cool). C+

The Varja - This is easily the hardest unit for me to rate out of these figures. I feel like in some relevant matchups he's (gender?) borderline broken. Not saying that he's the best figure ever or hurts the game, but I think he's seriously powerful. But, I reeeeeeeeally need to see how he plays in actual games, maybe he's not all that. I think I'll put him at A- for now because I'm too unsure. A-

Xualtiaca Fire Ants - Really strong against certain melee matchups, and not bad against melee altogether. I'm kind of reluctant to rate them up there with the Aunstrum; they're more of an offensive force and offensive board control but still having only 2 def and no other defensive abilities is worrisome. But I dunno, they're still only 55pt., and pairing with Phantom Knights always exist. I need to play them. B/B+

Zettian Deathwings - I'm a little confused with their hyper speed ability, whether you can technically use it twice or not. But either way, it's good. They're a really sweet unit, little flying hyper bombs. I could see starting out with them in a 4th Mass build. Or just splashing them in armies that fear certain things, like AE maybe. All in all they can do quite a bit of damage and be helpful. I think I need to know the exact ruling on hyper speed before I rate them, but they're at least a B. B

Thoughts?

[Sir Heroscape]

I haven't played too many of those units, but the one I can give honest feedback on is Bramcephys. Not worth 230pts imo. I've honestly rarely ever had him fill out his points or even half as much sometimes. That 4 defense is just so unreliable. I know he has potential...but he's easy to lock up with cheap units and enough attacks with even lower attack units get through that defense pretty quick. I think if he's buffed by Either Raelin he'd have the edge he needs.