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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #25  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 03:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
In that case wouldn't this be much easier since it doesn't matter who controls the player the controlling player must re-roll all dice.

HALLOWED TRADITIONS
Whenever a player rolls dice for a figure, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do that player must re-roll all dice.
That boxes out the Secret Identity stuff. The idea is he uses his powers to punish people who don't wear costumes and reward people who do. Rerolling dice is good for you, so you can only do it to your guys if they're in costume. It's bad for your opponents, so you can only do it to their guys if they're not in costume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Does "whenever" mean before, during, or after rolling dice?
After. I guess that's clearer than whenever.
Yeah I realized after I posted that I missed that part but since the conversation had already continued I didn't go back and edit.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #26  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 03:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I'd say ??? still counts as a Secret Identity. You still don't know who he really is after all, hence the ???.
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  #27  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 03:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

??? Is definitely a secret identity. His thread has a post that says "SECRET IDENTITY = ???" after all!

For anyone who missed it (I edited in a reply to Ronin), here's an alternative that might be clearer:

Correct. Why would he help you if you won't even dress up?

I think an "Otherwise, nothing happens" at the end would be mostly clear there.

We could also try to shuffle things around and just box in how the targeting works. Let me see how that might read:

HALLOWED TRADITION
After dice are rolled for a friendly figure with a Secret Identity, or an opponent's figure without a Secret Identity you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do, the player that controls that figure must reroll all dice.
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  #28  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:03 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Looks good to me.

And so we're all clear, that goes for any type of dice. Normal, special, d20, combat, unblockable etc.

I'd say if we update the wording and go with 3 attack we should be good.
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  #29  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

What are we voting on here? I'm not sure if the SP is up to date or not. I prefer the attack of 3 and getting rid of any climbing height restrictions on the Jump power.
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  #30  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:54 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
??? Is definitely a secret identity. His thread has a post that says "SECRET IDENTITY = ???" after all!

For anyone who missed it (I edited in a reply to Ronin), here's an alternative that might be clearer:

Correct. Why would he help you if you won't even dress up?

I think an "Otherwise, nothing happens" at the end would be mostly clear there.

We could also try to shuffle things around and just box in how the targeting works. Let me see how that might read:

HALLOWED TRADITION
After dice are rolled for a friendly figure with a Secret Identity, or an opponent's figure without a Secret Identity you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do, the player that controls that figure must reroll all dice.
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  #31  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
??? Is definitely a secret identity. His thread has a post that says "SECRET IDENTITY = ???" after all!

For anyone who missed it (I edited in a reply to Ronin), here's an alternative that might be clearer:

Correct. Why would he help you if you won't even dress up?

I think an "Otherwise, nothing happens" at the end would be mostly clear there.

We could also try to shuffle things around and just box in how the targeting works. Let me see how that might read:

HALLOWED TRADITION
After dice are rolled for a friendly figure with a Secret Identity, or an opponent's figure without a Secret Identity you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do, the player that controls that figure must reroll all dice.
I think that reads better to match the intent that has now been explained to me. I have no other comments or issues. Feel free to carry on and no need to wait for me moving forward until ON Deck. I'll follow along when I can but not to the extent you guys are with the deadline. Nothing in this worries me thematically.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #32  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

yea with the clarified Hallowed Traditions.
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  #33  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 04:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Any combos jump out to anyone as problematic? I think the only thing he's offering that may be troublesome is Hallowed Traditions allowing for a re-roll at the cost of an X. Limited to Secret Identities being a trigger helps keep it in check to a degree, but does anyone have anything in mind, that has a Secret Identity, to team up with Sam that could be abused? @dok

Would we feel more comfortable limiting Hallowed Traditions' re-roll, in terms of your own figures, to Creatures, Slashers, and Undead? That way we eliminate some potential crazy combo we're not realizing, and double down on the types of figures you draft Sam with? For example, as written, Sam can be drafted as filler into an Odin led Asgardian army, and use the re-roll to allow Odin to re-roll his Asgardian All-Father roll.
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  #34  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 05:21 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Scarlet Witch has a secret identity right? With her forcing dice to be rerolled, she might like having another reroll mechanic around. Same for Domino.
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  #35  
Old October 23rd, 2018, 11:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I'd rather not make Hallowed Traditions TOO limited... I think if there's problematic combinations, I would limit it to Common or Unique units, or even cap the number of dice it effects. Like, for example, put a "6 or fewer dice," which means all d20 rolls but limits everything else you're playing with.

Not sure if we're still in the breathing period, but we're definitely in the Initial phase either way. I believe this is what we're working with:

NAME = SAM
SECRET IDENTITY = SAMHAIN

SPECIES = ENTITY
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = SLASHER
PERSONALITY = TRICKY

SIZE/HEIGHT = SMALL 3

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 2

POINTS = 100

TRICK 'R TREAT

If you win initiative, you may choose an opponent's Army Card with at least one Order Marker on it. That opponent may remove one Order Marker from that Army Card. If they do not, all Creatures, Slashers, and Undead you control roll 1 additional die when attacking that Army Card's figure this round.

HALLOWED TRADITION
After dice are rolled for a friendly figure with a Secret Identity, or an opponent's figure without a Secret Identity you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card. If you do, the player that controls that figure must reroll all dice.

JUMP SCARE
Before moving, you may choose an opponent's figure that Sam is not within clear sight of. As long as Sam ends his movement engaged with that figure, he adds 3 to his Move number and may ignore his height when moving.
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  #36  
Old October 24th, 2018, 12:02 AM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I figured we were going with the drop in attack to 3. Regardless, here's the Initials played with what you just posted except an attack of 3(he only attacked 3-4 times in total so it wouldn't have made a major difference if we decide to ultimately go with 4).

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT Sam

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 1
Map: Custom
Units:
Sam(100), Pinhead(335), Jason(175), Freddy(175), Leatherface(95) (880)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Firestar(120), Swordsman(160), Moon Knight(150) (880)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2 (rematch)
Map: Custom
Units:
Sam(100), Pinhead(335), Jason(175), Freddy(175), Leatherface(95) (880)
vs.
Luke Cage(190), Iron Fist(260), Firestar(120), Swordsman(160), Moon Knight(150) (880)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Custom
Units:
Sam(90), Frankenstein(320), Lizard(200), Living Mummy(200), Morbius(250) (1060)
vs.
Warriors Three(920), Diablo(140) (1060)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Sam provides a nice filler with some thematic team ups. The ability to have a once per round re-roll on a botch or when defending against a heavy attack, or even with powers relating to combat dice such as Pinhead's leadership power or Lizard's healing, leaves for a nice support that doesn't feel too overwhelming. Choosing when to best use it feels strategic, but it doesn't always result in something better or different, and can sometimes bite you. Limiting it based on Secret Identities leaves enough room for people to escape it, as well as leaves some out that could probably abuse it. His Trick 'r Treat power provides a nice option for the opponent, play Sam's game or suffer potential more damage if they come for you. Armies that spread their Order Markers will see this haunt them more than ones that bundle them all, including the X, onto one hub. Sam's Jump Scare went unused in each test, it didn't seem to really come up as you generally prefer him to stay back, and when he does come into play, he needs to be out of sight and it's only a movement/climbing boost so it doesn't feel that essential to setup by the time he's called into action. Overall, he feels like a cool, thematic support that carries the Halloween theme with Halloween themed armies wanting his inclusion. Points wise, it's hard to tell, but I'd say as-is, he's probably coming in around ~80 points.
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