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  #1  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 04:06 AM
CanScape CanScape is offline
 
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How many turns in 'free for alls'?

One thing I haven't quite figured out in our "kill em' all" games is the amount of turns we should allow ourselves.

We've had instances in the past where the defensive minded players simply hide out, and wait for attackers. That gets dull, and isn't really fair. I realized from the beginning the need for turn limits...I don't mind the sit-and-wait game if that's a tactic your using (like running out the clock in football), but when you're just sitting around waiting for the enemy to make a move, that gets lame.

So has anybody figured out a good rule of thumb regarding how many rounds to include in a free for all, or even a capture the flag type scenario? Each would have it's own requirement for time, due to their nature (kill em alls being the quicker variant). Would it be reliant on sheer number of troops per side, as in point values? We usually just throw out an arbitrary number, like 20...but it always comes down to the last few turns. Sometimes you want a longer game, but other times keeping things brisk (without being 'too' reckless) gives the game some scope and meaning.

In the same vein, what about number of orders per turn? I've read here that some use more turn markers (like four or five) depending on the size of armies. Is there a rule of thumb, such as standard three up to around 1000 pts, and one more per extra 500?...something like that?

The obvious thing I suppose would be to experiment, but...we just don't have that kinda time, and I'm sure there's already some good advice to be found here from far more experienced Scapers than I.

Thanks for anything you can add, and I apologize in advance if this topic has been covered thoroughly elsewhere.
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  #2  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 11:40 AM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

I think your problem might lie in the maps you are using. Try using maps that offer distinct advantages to the army that moves out of its start zone. One way to do this is through the use of glyphs. Putting an attack or defense +1 glyph on the map will create a powerful incentive for a player to move his army out of his start zone. Another way to encourage players to move out is to have areas of the map with height in shooting distance of the start zones. If a player wants to turtle in their start zone they will be conceding the high ground to their opponent, which is almost always a bad idea in Heroscape. Check out the Battlefields of Valhalla map thread to get a good idea of maps that illustrate what I am talking about.
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 11:45 AM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

I was going to say the same thing.

My map thread.
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  #4  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 12:16 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Yep, my first thought was like tom's: Maps - Camping maps lead to camping strategies.

Glyphs, low ground start zones, etc...all make it less desirable to hang out in your start zone.

If you are still having a problem, you can make a map like Fire Starter where players start the game on Lava field; that will get everyone moving out of their start zone for sure!

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  #5  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 12:50 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Makes sense...now that we have enough terrain to actually create those differences in height a bit easier!

I didn't realize the 'camping' aspect of map design. Most of the time, it's not the starting zones they stick to, but they find a fortified position, camp out, and wait for the enemy.

We do the free for alls the most, and a big reason is the simplicity...we want to get playing as quickly as possible, which means the map is usually constructed on the fly. Elevations, obstacles, glyphs, everything is pretty much random! That will have to change a bit.

Thanks!
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Old October 3rd, 2009, 06:17 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Instead of a typical "Free-For-All" game, try a "Kill-The-Player-To-Your-Left" game... This way, there is no benefit whatsoever to "camping" in your start zone to let the other players to hack away at each other first... Kill the player to your (left/right) games are among my favorites simply because of the crazy dynamics that naturally develop from them. And no one could ever win such a game by "playing it safe."

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  #7  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 07:50 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Set no time or round limit, and always put a Wannok glyph on the map. This will induce your oppoent to come out from turtling and man up.

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Old October 3rd, 2009, 10:33 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Set no time or round limit, and always put a Wannok glyph on the map. This will induce your oppoent to come out from turtling and man up.
Nice! Don't forget to bring Cyprien to really get the other player(s) moving!

Incentive is always good. Even Especially if it hurts.

(P.S. +rep, as if you really need it at this point)
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  #9  
Old October 3rd, 2009, 11:18 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

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Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Set no time or round limit, and always put a Wannok glyph on the map. This will induce your oppoent to come out from turtling and man up.
Why not two Wannok glyphs? That would get the turf war up and running quickly. Maybe on central, low-lying lava terrain for good measure. There is a tactical disadvantage to having the terrain it is sitting on, a strategic advantage to both keeping and clearing off the glyph at the end of the round, and a whole lot of reason to have someone within movement distance of the glyphs.

Or the attack the player to the left.
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  #10  
Old October 4th, 2009, 03:31 AM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Glyphs are definitely going into the next game. Most times, we just do them randomly...I don't know why, that's just the way it's worked out.

How about number of rounds, though? That also gives incentive to move ahead rather than turtle...but is there a method for determining the 'best' amount of rounds? Would it be dependent on overall figure count, or points? Like I mentioned prior, we usually just go for 20 or so if there's three players. 10 seems too short, especially if the battlefield is pretty big. Any tips?
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Old October 4th, 2009, 08:50 AM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanScape View Post
Glyphs are definitely going into the next game. Most times, we just do them randomly...I don't know why, that's just the way it's worked out.

How about number of rounds, though? That also gives incentive to move ahead rather than turtle...but is there a method for determining the 'best' amount of rounds? Would it be dependent on overall figure count, or points? Like I mentioned prior, we usually just go for 20 or so if there's three players. 10 seems too short, especially if the battlefield is pretty big. Any tips?
Don't do rounds. Because what if every army has raelin? That is a slow moving game for sure, but does that mean you have to increase rounds accordingly? But then a lot of units on the field bypass defense with abilities like chomp, so do we then decrease the rounds? It is just impossible.

Plus, it eliminates the possibility of one person being unable to make an awesome comeback or whatever if he runs out of rounds.

What I sometimes play is once one person dies the game is over and whoever has the most points on the field (partial points for half-dead squads, so having one stinger left is 20 points) is the winner.

The attack the player to the left thing also works and works well.


But either way, make sure that the start zones are the lowest part of the map.
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  #12  
Old October 4th, 2009, 03:03 PM
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Re: How many turns in 'free for alls'?

Rounds actually entices turtling...once you kill a couple of enemy units or squads, you can retreat and post up, knowing that you will win on time. Same with time limits, to a degree.

As for 2 Wannok glyphs, that's also a turtling problem as both teams can post up on them. One glyph in the middle is the best way to stop turtling, especially when placed within range of shooters on height...they may turtle ON the glyph, but at their own peril.

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