Heroscapers
Home Forums Gallery DownloadsBlogs Events Calendar Today's Posts Search Register
Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy > C3G Legacy Library
Reload this Page The Book of The Crow
C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


Reply
Page 28 of 41 « First 18 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 38 Last »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #325  
Old November 9th, 2016, 10:04 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
  
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,750
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow

There's lots of mostly-irrelevant plot changes; the core is fairly similar for our purposes. Comic book Crow is more game-breakingly invulnerable than movie Crow - but then, neither ever got hit with Thor's hammer.
Reply With Quote
  #326  
Old November 9th, 2016, 10:19 PM
Lazy Orang's Avatar
Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
Hard as ice
  
Join Date: November 10, 2012
Location: British Isles
Posts: 15,921
Images: 6
Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post

There's lots of mostly-irrelevant plot changes; the core is fairly similar for our purposes. Comic book Crow is more game-breakingly invulnerable than movie Crow - but then, neither ever got hit with Thor's hammer.
Yeah, the one thing I really like about the adjusted Crow is the altered invulnerability - he's still basically immune to small arms fire, a major theme win, without being literally indestructible and being able to be killed by big hits, both less broken and more interesting mechanically.

But yeah - in both the book and the film, he went after a few mostly (or, in the book's' case, entirely) also-rans who specifically killed him and Shelly - specific mission from the moment he's resurrected, no additional missions when he sees others die.

My Family's Classic Customs - The Stiff Corpse
=====================
Reply With Quote
  #327  
Old November 10th, 2016, 08:18 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
  
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,750
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow
Spoiler Alert!


Let's not lose sight of the gameplay concerns that led to the change you're objecting to in the first place. Theme doesn't just live on the card, it also lives in the way a card is used. As I re-learned while working on Captain Britain, sometimes a power that looks like it hits theme on the card leads to the figure being used in non-thematic ways, so you need to be careful with these tweaks.

The released Crow design plays like a kamikaze pilot with strange motivations. He slaps the marker on someone he doesn't want to wound, then immediately rushes in and tries to take figures out while he's invulnerable, while ignoring the crow'ed figure. This is obviously weird and a theme fail.

To remedy this, we're trying to make sure the marker ends up on a figure that's is actually active and attacking things, and have the Crow join the fray after things have gotten messy somehow. While there are lots of different ways to do this, I continue to believe that if we allow placing the marker at game start, The Crow goes back to being that first-wave figure, ignoring the crow'ed figure in favor of others.

There are lots of different ways we can try to remedy this effect. The question really becomes how closely we hew to the original design. If we're willing to range a little further, then I'd suggest something like:
SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
The Crow does not start the game on the battlefield. Start the game with 5 black Crow Markers on this card. If any of your Crow Markers are on this card and any other figure you control is destroyed by an opponent’s figure that does not have a Crow Marker on its card, you must place one of your Crow Markers on the attacking figure's Army Card. If the Crow is on this card and not destroyed when you place your Crow Marker, place The Crow on any empty space in your Start Zone.

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
If The Crow would receive one or more wounds, ignore one of those wounds. Any figure with your Crow Marker on its Army Card rolls one fewer defense die when attacked by The Crow. After revealing an Order Marker on any card you control, if no figure your opponent controls has any of your Crow Markers on its card, place The Crow on this card.
Like I said, pretty different than where we started. I picked 5 markers because that's how many people he seeks vengeance on in the comics. If this version of the Crow does take out 5 different figures, then that's the end of the game for The Crow. (But he still wins the game if that was the last figure left, since The Crow doesn't leave the game until the controlling player's next OM reveal.) It's also possible for The Crow to show up, kill someone, leave the battlefield, and then come back for more vengeance later. That's not something that happened in the comics, obviously, but it doesn't seem like a theme fail to me.
Last edited by dok; November 10th, 2016 at 08:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #328  
Old November 10th, 2016, 08:38 PM
Lazy Orang's Avatar
Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
Hard as ice
  
Join Date: November 10, 2012
Location: British Isles
Posts: 15,921
Images: 6
Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Spoiler Alert!


Let's not lose sight of the gameplay concerns that led to the change you're objecting to in the first place. Theme doesn't just live on the card, it also lives in the way a card is used. As I learned again while working on Captain Britain, sometimes a power that looks like it hits theme on the card leads to the figure being used in non-thematic ways, so you need to be careful with these tweaks.

The released Crow design plays like a kamikaze pilot with strange motivations. He slaps the marker on someone he doesn't want to wound, then immediately rushes in and tries to take figures out while he's invulnerable, while ignoring the crow'ed figure. This is obviously weird and a theme fail.
I recognise that, and it's a big problem. What I'd suggest as an alternative would be something along the lines of what Smithy suggested a year ago:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy Winfred View Post
One thing Wikipedia says is that The Ressurected will start to decay if he abandons his mission, so maybe he has a chance of taking a wound every round he did not attack his target?

Just trying to help
Honestly, I'd go with something like this. (Bracketed parts are optional for my idea, but may be wished for if we want him more similar to the original design.)


SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
At the start of the game, choose an opponent's Army Card that is not The Crow and place the black Crow Marker on the chosen figure's card. (If the Crow Marker is on this card and any other figure you control is destroyed by an opponent’s figure, you may place your Crow Marker on the attacking figure's Army Card.) If all figures with your Crow Marker on their card are removed from the battlefield or your opponent loses control of those figures, (or a figure with your Crow Marker on its card receives a wound from a figure other than the Crow,) place your Crow Marker on this card.

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
While your Crow Marker is on another Army Card, if The Crow would receive one or more wounds from anything other than this special power, ignore one of those wounds. Any figure with your Crow Marker on its Army Card rolls one fewer defense die when defending against the Crow. At the end of any round in which you took a turn with the Crow, if he didn't attack a figure with a Crow Marker on its Army Card this round, the Crow receives a wound.

My Family's Classic Customs - The Stiff Corpse
=====================
Reply With Quote
  #329  
Old November 10th, 2016, 10:41 PM
TrollBrute's Avatar
TrollBrute TrollBrute is offline
Who ISN'T One of My Brothers??
  
Join Date: February 19, 2012
Location: USA - Ohio - Millersburg
Posts: 8,412
TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun TrollBrute is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post

SET THE WRONG THINGS RIGHT
At the start of the game, choose an opponent's Army Card that is not The Crow and place the black Crow Marker on the chosen figure's card. (If the Crow Marker is on this card and any other figure you control is destroyed by an opponent’s figure, you may place your Crow Marker on the attacking figure's Army Card.) If all figures with your Crow Marker on their card are removed from the battlefield or your opponent loses control of those figures, (or a figure with your Crow Marker on its card receives a wound from a figure other than the Crow,) place your Crow Marker on this card.

LIVE FOR VENGEANCE
While your Crow Marker is on another Army Card, if The Crow would receive one or more wounds from anything other than this special power, ignore one of those wounds. Any figure with your Crow Marker on its Army Card rolls one fewer defense die when defending against the Crow. At the end of any round in which you took a turn with the Crow, if he didn't attack a figure with a Crow Marker on its Army Card this round, the Crow receives a wound.
Not sure that totally solves the issue. A wound or two over the game isn't a huge deal if the better strategy is still to go after other figures while throwing an occasional attack at the markered figure. It's also a lot of changes that makes the theme better but doesn't perfectly solve everything.

dok's suggestion is a good one for catching the theme, but again, it's going way off from the original LD intent, which is something we always try to avoid in reeval.
".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
Reply With Quote
  #330  
Old November 10th, 2016, 10:47 PM
Lazy Orang's Avatar
Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
Hard as ice
  
Join Date: November 10, 2012
Location: British Isles
Posts: 15,921
Images: 6
Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of The Crow
Perhaps something like this, either instead of, or in addition to, the rotting suggestion:

When attacking with the Crow, you must attack a figure with your Crow Marker on its Army Card, if possible.

My Family's Classic Customs - The Stiff Corpse
=====================
Reply With Quote
  #331  
Old November 11th, 2016, 04:18 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
  
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,750
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow
The struggle continues. Personally I don't like decay wounds (seems pretty weakly supported by the text, and as TB points out it might not work well) and I also dislike forced attack rules.

Maybe some polls?
  1. Which of the following do you prefer?
    1. The Crow places a marker on an opponent's card at the beginning of the game.
    2. The Crow starts on the battlefield but doesn't place a marker until a friendly figure is destroyed.
    3. The Crow doesn't start on the battlefield, and when you place a marker the Crow is placed.

  2. Which of the following do you prefer?
    1. One Crow Marker, placed once and never placed again.
    2. Multiple Crow markers, each can only be placed once.
    3. One Crow Marker, can be moved to a different figure any time a friendly figure is destroyed.
    4. One Crow Marker, can be placed on a different figure only if the marker is on The Crow's card.

  3. Which of the following do you prefer?
    1. Decay wounds on The Crow if he doesn't attack figures with the Crow Marker
    2. A requirement to attack figures with the Crow Marker, if possible
    3. No special requirements like these.

  4. Which of the following do you prefer?
    1. The Crow remains on the battlefield after all Crow'ed figures are destroyed
    2. The Crow leaves the battlefield on the next turn after Crowed figures are destroyed.

1c>b>a, 2b>c>d>a, 3c>b>a, 4b>a for me, at the moment.
Last edited by dok; November 11th, 2016 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Post 19,000
Reply With Quote
  #332  
Old November 11th, 2016, 04:56 PM
Lazy Orang's Avatar
Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
Hard as ice
  
Join Date: November 10, 2012
Location: British Isles
Posts: 15,921
Images: 6
Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of The Crow
1) Strongly A - the theme is all wrong otherwise
2) A, but it's not a massive deal - whatever works best, in the end
3) Whichever works best for the design
4) I like the theme of B, but don't massively care either way

My Family's Classic Customs - The Stiff Corpse
=====================
Reply With Quote
  #333  
Old November 11th, 2016, 05:33 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
  
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,750
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
1) Strongly A - the theme is all wrong otherwise
You've articulated your theme objection to "B", but what is the theme objection to "C"?
Reply With Quote
  #334  
Old November 11th, 2016, 05:40 PM
Lazy Orang's Avatar
Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
Hard as ice
  
Join Date: November 10, 2012
Location: British Isles
Posts: 15,921
Images: 6
Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death! Lazy Orang is hot lava death!
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
1) Strongly A - the theme is all wrong otherwise
You've articulated your theme objection to "B", but what is the theme objection to "C"?
That doesn't work because he didn't resurrect to coincide with a murder and then go after the perpetrator - he resurrected to avenge a personal tragedy that happened a year prior. He isn't actually an avenger of those who have been murdered, in a general sense, he's just a revanent who's really pissed off about what happened to him and, particularly, his girlfriend. C probably fits a bit better than B, but I honestly think just picking someone at the start of the game represents his motivations better. I could square C by imagining that the person who just killed someone was also the person he already had a vendetta against, but it's a bit of a stretch. I honestly think you guys are trying to make a vengeance based design and, in doing so, actually missing his primary motivation.

My Family's Classic Customs - The Stiff Corpse
=====================
Reply With Quote
  #335  
Old November 11th, 2016, 06:24 PM
Tornado's Avatar
Tornado Tornado is online now
Fan Fiction Prompt Master
  
Join Date: August 11, 2010
Location: USA - MI - Kalamazoo
Posts: 35,297
Images: 398
Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth Tornado is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow
So wish LP was here.

He does seek revenge against a group in the comic/movie correct?
A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow - Eslo Rudkey
Reply With Quote
  #336  
Old November 11th, 2016, 06:47 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
  
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,750
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: The Book of The Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
So wish LP was here.

He does seek revenge against a group in the comic/movie correct?
Yes. The youtube clip I link above does a decent job summarizing it.
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 28 of 41 « First 18 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 38 Last »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Go Back   Heroscapers > Marvel Legends HeroScape > Comic Hero Custom Creations > C3G SuperScape > C3G Legacy > C3G Legacy Library
Reload this Page The Book of The Crow


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Book of Battleship Map Smithy Winfred C3G Legacy Library 168 December 8th, 2020 07:01 PM
The Book of Etrigan johnny139 C3G Legacy Library 120 March 18th, 2020 08:32 PM
The Book of Zangief Good Pig C3G Legacy Library 235 April 11th, 2019 12:40 PM
The Book of Spectre Karat C3G Legacy Library 244 January 19th, 2014 06:22 PM
The Book of Bouncing Boy A3n C3G Legacy Library 130 October 7th, 2013 03:40 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.

Heroscape background footer
Heroscapers.com - Members List - Forum Rules - Archive - Jump to Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.