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  #25  
Old June 21st, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

I agree, it isn't the clearest wording ever, but all of us around here are really big on "doing what the card says, not what it doesn't." Questions about special powers like this come up frequently, and a strict interpretation of the card can usually resolve the rule question. Taking that perspective, if Moltenclaw is not affected by a special power, it doesn't matter who it comes from, he's still immune to it.

The other thing is that, like I mentioned before, so many splash attacks say specifically that the unit is not affected by "his/her own ____ special attack." The language on various figures special powers is very consistent, and Moltenclaw doesn't have that wording. It does seem a bit strange, but the wording he does have makes him immune to the power, no matter who it comes from.

I could be completely wrong on this, but a strict interpretation of the card would seem to say that. Either way, once this gets resolved, it should probably be mentioned as a clarification in the book to avoid future confusion.
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  #26  
Old June 21st, 2011, 01:35 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Sox_1 View Post
I agree, it isn't the clearest wording ever, but all of us around here are really big on "doing what the card says, not what it doesn't." Questions about special powers like this come up frequently, and a strict interpretation of the card can usually resolve the rule question. Taking that perspective, if Moltenclaw is not affected by a special power, it doesn't matter who it comes from, he's still immune to it.

The other thing is that, like I mentioned before, so many splash attacks say specifically that the unit is not affected by "his/her own ____ special attack." The language on various figures special powers is very consistent, and Moltenclaw doesn't have that wording. It does seem a bit strange, but the wording he does have makes him immune to the power, no matter who it comes from.

I could be completely wrong on this, but a strict interpretation of the card would seem to say that. Either way, once this gets resolved, it should probably be mentioned as a clarification in the book to avoid future confusion.
This is true. Both sides have rather strong cases. It all kind of comes down to loose vs strict interpretation (jut like the Constitution, I guess some things from history class stick )
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  #27  
Old June 21st, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Well met!

For consistency's sake, those units immune to Lava should be immune to Fire-based attacks.
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  #28  
Old June 21st, 2011, 01:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Except that "fire" is not a specific HS keyword.


Take the following 3 abilities:
  • Burning Breath SA
  • Lava Throw
  • Rapid Fire SA
Only 1 of those has the word "fire" in it, and immunity to that power is clearly not the spirit of what you are suggesting. Burning Breath is, but doesn't use the word "fire". And since Lava Throw is arguably a fire-related aspect of an attack, should lava resistant figures be immune to the extra range?



Edit: Here's a longer list I put together a while ago regarding the same issue for Filthy the Clown's Greenvise:

Fire-based abilities with "Fire" in their name
Fireblast SA - Erevan
Fire Line SA - Mimring
Fire Strike SA - Chardris
Fledgling Fires SA - Red Wyrmling
Majestic Fires SA - Zelrig

Fire-based abilities without "Fire" in their name
Burning Breath SA - Moltenclaw
Lava Throw - Obsidian Guards
Rain of Flame SA - Jorhdawn
Searing Intensity - Fire Elemental (lava resistant figures are immune to this ability)

Other abilities with "Fire" in their name
Cover Fire - Agent Skahen
Rapid Fire SA - Deathwalker 8000
Wait Then Fire - 4th, 10th, Harqs

130-96-0 (4/13/09-1/14/24)
36-16-0 (10/17/09-12/9/23)

Last edited by Killometer; June 21st, 2011 at 01:55 PM.
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  #29  
Old June 21st, 2011, 02:26 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Kolakoski, if you want to house rule that lava resistant units are immune to certain attacks, by all means do it if that's how you want to play the game. However, there is nothing at all in Moltenclaw (or any other unit mentioned here) that would support that under a strict interpretation of the rules. The only power in the game (to my knowledge) that even references lava resistance (aside from lava resistance itself) is the Fire Elemental, and their power is completely different from a special attack anyways. I don't really see anything in Moltenclaw's card that would support that a unit can or can't be affected by Burning Breath because of lava resistance. Moltenclaw would possibly be immune to another Moltenclaw's Burning Breath because of the last sentence of the Burning Breath Special Attack.

If playing that way will allow you and your group to have more fun playing HS, then go for it! It just isn't backed up anywhere in the cards or rules, that I'm aware of. House rules are great, but in the end they can actually lead to inconsistency, even though that's what they're trying to avoid.

Sorry if that came across as aggressive or like I was insulting your suggestion, because that's not what I meant. My group uses house rules, and I'm sure many people do. I'm just trying to figure out how Moltenclaw vs Moltenclaw would work if it came up in a tournament or something.
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  #30  
Old June 21st, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Sox_1 View Post
Kolakoski, . . .

Sorry if that came across as aggressive or like I was insulting your suggestion, because that's not what I meant. My group uses house rules, and I'm sure many people do. I'm just trying to figure out how Moltenclaw vs Moltenclaw would work if it came up in a tournament or something.
No problem. I was just playing a little Devil's Advocate. Actually, I can easily justify units like Moltenclaw and Mimring not being immune to fire-type attacks. Lava-resistent units not being so seems relatively arbitrary, though. In any event, my only House Rule is that initiative is determined from high to low, rather than from high to the left. [I tried to House Rule the CUC's modification to the Tagawa Samurai Archers, but met with such resistance that I gave it up, as opposed to hurting anyone.]
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  #31  
Old June 21st, 2011, 04:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

OK . Glad it's all cool. It's good that someone will take the opposing position so that issues like this can be discussed fully and completely, otherwise questions like this would be much harder to resolve. Speaking of which... is there someone who knows more about this and could give an official ruling?
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  #32  
Old June 21st, 2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

I'd say the card is pretty official, unless we hear something else, just follow it TO THE LETTER!!!


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  #33  
Old June 21st, 2011, 08:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Sox_1 View Post
Kolakoski, . . .

Sorry if that came across as aggressive or like I was insulting your suggestion, because that's not what I meant. My group uses house rules, and I'm sure many people do. I'm just trying to figure out how Moltenclaw vs Moltenclaw would work if it came up in a tournament or something.
No problem. I was just playing a little Devil's Advocate. Actually, I can easily justify units like Moltenclaw and Mimring not being immune to fire-type attacks. Lava-resistent units not being so seems relatively arbitrary, though. In any event, my only House Rule is that initiative is determined from high to low, rather than from high to the left. [I tried to House Rule the CUC's modification to the Tagawa Samurai Archers, but met with such resistance that I gave it up, as opposed to hurting anyone.]
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  #34  
Old June 21st, 2011, 08:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

No, Moltenclaw cannot be hurt by ANY Burning Breath Special Attack, regardless of who is using that power.

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  #35  
Old June 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

I would agree do what the card says to the letter, if the rules team comes up with an eratta on it to clarify it better that is and would be great. I went round and round about fire risistance for characters who were lava resistant as well as lava resisitant characters being immune to lava throw , needless to say in huse rules lava resistant characters are immune to lava throw only, every thing else we go by the eratta thats home rules and out and about.

It would be great to see if the rules team does do anything with this but untill then, just go strictly by the card and you can not be wrong, only the card can be. lol.
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  #36  
Old July 12th, 2011, 07:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Moltenclaw

Used this guy for the first time last night, and I was impressed. He perched on some high lava field and toasted many elves before dying. His breath attack is definitely way easier to use and far more dangerous than Mimring's, and his lava resistance makes it hard to melee him without risking lava damage at the end of the round.

I would not use him outside of a lava map though. Without that edge I would say in most cases just spend the extra 15 pts for Nilfheim.
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