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  #49  
Old June 6th, 2015, 10:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

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Originally Posted by Not User Name View Post
How about after taking a turn with the Zettian Deathwings, you may move the activated ZDs 3 spaces?
This seems to be the simplest I've seen suggested so far.
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  #50  
Old June 6th, 2015, 10:46 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyTankster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Not User Name View Post
How about after taking a turn with the Zettian Deathwings, you may move the activated ZDs 3 spaces?
This seems to be the simplest I've seen suggested so far.
Guys, we don't need the suggestions, thanks.

For the record, the issue with that version (which, given that we started with the Silver Surfer, is where we started) is that Zettian Deathwings would get to use Hyper Speed Burst even after getting hit with EMP response from Omnicron Repulsors.
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  #51  
Old June 6th, 2015, 11:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

I don't understand what the problem is, given that the wording has been clarified. There are a lot of other units that have had confusing or misleading wording, but an official ruling was made and that's how they are played.
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  #52  
Old June 8th, 2015, 12:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

With respect to the Detonation Special Attack, if the ZD detonates between Q9 and Raelin, who gets to choose which figure rolls for defense first? If Raelin rolls first and dies, I assume that Q9 loses her protective aura.
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  #53  
Old June 8th, 2015, 08:10 AM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

The usual rule is that the targeted figure defends first and then the attacker chooses the order for the other affected figures. In this case there's no targeted figure so I believe the attacker chooses the order for all of them.
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  #54  
Old June 8th, 2015, 11:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

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Originally Posted by ollie View Post
The usual rule is that the targeted figure defends first and then the attacker chooses the order for the other affected figures. In this case there's no targeted figure so I believe the attacker chooses the order for all of them.
ollie is correct.
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  #55  
Old June 10th, 2015, 07:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

@Dysole ,

Different online retailers spell these miniatures' names in different ways. It might be helpful to those seeking the minis to do something along these lines:

Quote:
The figures used for this unit are Star Wars figures from the Starship Battles release. The figures' names are 50/Geonosian Starfighter and 51/Geonosian Starfighter Ace, although some online retailers misspell Geonosian as "Genosian."


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Last edited by Just_a_Bill; June 10th, 2015 at 11:03 PM.
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  #56  
Old June 11th, 2015, 01:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Today we are releasing a new version of the Deathwings' card which hopefully addresses the issues that people have brought up. The image and printable pdf have both been updated. Please replace the previous version of the card with this new version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD VERSION
DETONATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1 Attack 5.
A Zettian Deathwing that moved but did not attack normally may use Detonation Special Attack. Any figures adjacent to the attacking Zettian Deathwing are affected by Detonation Special Attack. Destroy the attacking Zettian Deathwing, then roll 5 attack dice for all affected figures, even if all Deathwings have been destroyed. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

HYPER SPEED BURST 3
After attacking with a Zettian Deathwing, that Deathwing may move up to an additional 3 spaces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW VERSION
DETONATION SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 5.
A Zettian Deathwing that moved but did not attack normally may use Detonation Special Attack. Any figures adjacent to the attacking Zettian Deathwing are affected by Detonation Special Attack. Roll 5 attack dice for all affected figures. Destroy the attacking Zettian Deathwing before each figure rolls defense dice separately.

HYPER SPEED BURST 3
After moving and attacking with Zettian Deathwings, each Zettian Deathwing you activate this turn may move up to 3 spaces.
As was briefly mentioned before, much of the difficulty in wording both Detonation Special Attack, and Hyper Speed Burst 3, had to do with unusual interactions with the Omnicron Repulsors, and specifically their EMP response power.

In the case of Detonation Special Attack, the obvious approach would be to destroy the attacking Deathwing after using the attack. However, if the attack is blocked by a Repulsor, and the Repulsor hits EMP response, one could easily argue that since the turn "immediately" ends, an affect that occurs "after using Detonation Special Attack" would not happen. (Imagine if, instead of destroying the Deathwing, the power said that after using the special attack, you could teleport the Deathwing, or some other useful action. You'd think EMP response should stop that, right?)

We could have simply R&Ced this interaction, but we chose to move the destruction to before defense dice were rolled, in order to remove this conflict. However, this led to some concern about how to deal with the situation where the last Deathwing is using the attack. Our original version had the destruction happen before attack dice were rolled, and had the same "even if" language that Myrrdin has. In the new version, we have the Deathwing roll attack dice, then the Deathwing is destroyed, and then defense dice are rolled. The precedent of DW9k destroying himself with his explosion special attack before every affected figure has rolled defense clearly tells us that all affected figures roll defense dice even if the attacking figure has been destroyed. So this allows us to avoid problematic interactions with EMP Pulse Response while not using the "even if" construction.

In the case of Hyper Speed Burst 3, the original version of the power, which was playtested, had that power at the end of the Deathwings' turn, just like the Silver Surfer's version. However, this meant that Deathwings would be able to use the power even after EMP Pulse Response hit. So the power had to be moved inside the Deathwings' turn. However, the version we released, stating that the power happened "after attacking with a Zettian Deathwing", led some to the interpretation that attacking was required, which was not intended. Also, this version required each Deathwing to use the power individually after attacking, as opposed to both Deathwings attacking and then both Deathwings moving. While we were willing to accept this deviation from the playtested version in order to avoid the problematic interaction with EMP Response, it was mildly counter-intuitive.

The new version states the power triggers "after moving and attacking with Zettian Deathwings". This phrase should be interpreted in the same way as "after moving and before attacking" is - that is, that it simply tells you when in the turn to use the power. Just as moving is not required to use Chilling Touch, or attacking is not required to use Toxic Skin, neither moving nor attacking is required to use Hyper Speed Burst 3.

Here is a R&Cs that we would like to add to the OP along with this new version:

Q: If I do not move and/or do not attack with a second Deathwing, can I still move it using Hyper Speed Burst 3?
A: Yes.
"After moving and attacking" refers to when in the turn the power takes place. Moving and/or attacking are not requirements to use the power. If you have activated only one Deathwing in the turn, you may choose an additional Deathwing to activate and use Hyper Speed Burst 3.

Q: If a Zettian Deathwing uses Detonation Special Attack while adjacent to Isamu, is the Deathwing removed before or after the roll for Vanish?
A: The players roll off using the 20-sided die to decide which happens first.
The destruction of the Deathwing happens at the same time as the roll for Vanish so the rule for simultaneous powers applies. This applies to all "at least 1 skull is rolled" powers that work against special attacks: Flutter, Spider-Sense/Spidey-Sense, and Vanish.

Thanks for your patience, and we hope you all enjoy using the new card.

- Your C3V Rules Team

Last edited by dok; June 12th, 2015 at 10:50 AM.
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  #57  
Old June 11th, 2015, 10:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Wicked explanation. I totally understand the difficulty in making the power work in the correct order.

Although I wounder if it is worth all this work just to have your creations fly off and blow up.


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  #58  
Old June 11th, 2015, 10:55 PM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

When I think about what we try to do in the C3V, and how much work goes into details like this, I am reminded of what John Lasseter often said of Pixar: "We sand the underside of the drawers."

We want every little thing to work, even the things that people won't even normally see.

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  #59  
Old June 12th, 2015, 09:15 AM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Thanks for listening to our concerns and coming up with the revision.
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  #60  
Old June 12th, 2015, 10:38 AM
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Re: The Book of Zettian Deathwings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
When I think about what we try to do in the C3V, and how much work goes into details like this, I am reminded of what John Lasseter often said of Pixar: "We sand the underside of the drawers."

We want every little thing to work, even the things that people won't even normally see.
I appreciate the work
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