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  #1  
Old June 22nd, 2008, 10:01 PM
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Jungle Guardians scenario questions

In the official Ticalla Jungle scenario "Jungle Guardians", one of the special rules is "Instead of taking a turn with an Army Card that includes a figure standing on the Spider Totem (Glyph of Brandar), you may take a turn with the Fyorlag Spiders."

Now suopose I have Sujoah standing on the Spider Totem and I have order markers on Sujoah.

QUESTION 1. On my turn, instead of taking a turn with Sujoah, I choose to take a turn with the spiders. But the spiders have predator bonding so I first take a turn with Sujoah and I move him off the spider totem to say attack someone, and then I take my turn with the spiders themselves.
The question is, is this maneuver legal?
My opinion is yes, but some would argue that once Sujoah moves off the spider totem that you no longer control the spiders and cannot move the spiders. What do you all think?

QUESTION 2. Note that the scenario rule did not use the careful phrase "when you reveal a turn marker for an Army Card that includes a figure standing on the Spider Totem..." So when I go to take a turn with Sujoah, I take a turn with the spiders. But the spiders have predator bonding, so I take a turn with Sujoah first. But instead of taking this new turn with Sujoah, I choose to take a turn with the spiders instead. And I repeat this. At some point, after exercising this option X times, I have to actually a turn with Sujoah. I don't actually move Sujoah so I am still on the Spider Totem (so that there is no argument there). Then I "pop the stack" and take my X turns with the spiders! This trick does not give me an infinite number of turns with the spiders since I actually have to pick a number X. But it is almost infinite because I can say X is a googol or something. This is not really a question since the glyph power seems to allow this.

EDITED to included Question 2 in this first post.

Last edited by mathguy; June 22nd, 2008 at 11:48 PM. Reason: to put both questions in first post
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  #2  
Old June 22nd, 2008, 10:03 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario question

I think you can't move Sujoah off. Ask Hasbr... I mean Wizards of the Coast about it.

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  #3  
Old June 22nd, 2008, 10:07 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario question

Once Sujoah steps off of the glyph you no longer control the spiders so you cannot take a turn with them.
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 11:50 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

I edited the first post to include a second question, which is a way to take an almost infinite number of turns with the spiders in this scenario.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:12 AM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

mathguy,

I don't think this needs to be answered. It is a scenario specific question for which I question the validity. Why in the world would the players of that particular scenario agree to allow Sujoah? For that matter, you missed the problem of "if you have your own Spiders and control the glyph do you get to resurrect any of your dead ones per scenario instructions?" Again - why in the world would the players of that particular scenario agree to allow a side to own Spiders?

You're taking a fun scenario designed to introduce players to the Jungle rule set and the Spiders abilities and you're trying to break it. Well... it can be broken. So simply refrain from using predators and Spiders.

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  #6  
Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:41 AM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
mathguy,

I don't think this needs to be answered. It is a scenario specific question for which I question the validity. Why in the world would the players of that particular scenario agree to allow Sujoah? For that matter, you missed the problem of "if you have your own Spiders and control the glyph do you get to resurrect any of your dead ones per scenario instructions?" Again - why in the world would the players of that particular scenario agree to allow a side to own Spiders?

You're taking a fun scenario designed to introduce players to the Jungle rule set and the Spiders abilities and you're trying to break it. Well... it can be broken. So simply refrain from using predators and Spiders.

~Aldin, who can't think of any genuine reason to try to resolve the question
The intent of the question is not to break a fun scenario, but to bring up a question that would naturally come up. As for someone drafting Sujoah, I think that would naturally occur since Sujoah is one of the Aquila Alliance figures and players would naturally want to try out the new Wave 8.5 characters with a new Wave 8.5 scenario.

The scenario already forbids players from drafting their own spiders. The semi-infinite number of turns with the spiders trick can be done with just drafting Sujoah or any predator. This can easily be resolved by reading the special rules as "when you reveal an order marker on an Army Card...".
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:55 AM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

I think if I were to play the scenario (I tend to avoid them) the situation as described in your Question 1 would be legal, the one in Question 2, being absurd, would not. But, I'm kind of simple that way.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 10:55 AM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

I agree with Revdyer you can move the spiders and Sujoah. This is my thinking about it, part of the Spiders card is that predator bonding, so I think since you are already activating a power you are already using them. So use the power and finish the turn with the spiders. That's my thinking anyway.

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Old June 24th, 2008, 01:46 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathguy View Post
QUESTION 2. Note that the scenario rule did not use the careful phrase "when you reveal a turn marker for an Army Card that includes a figure standing on the Spider Totem..." So when I go to take a turn with Sujoah, I take a turn with the spiders. But the spiders have predator bonding, so I take a turn with Sujoah first. But instead of taking this new turn with Sujoah, I choose to take a turn with the spiders instead. And I repeat this. At some point, after exercising this option X times, I have to actually a turn with Sujoah. I don't actually move Sujoah so I am still on the Spider Totem (so that there is no argument there). Then I "pop the stack" and take my X turns with the spiders! This trick does not give me an infinite number of turns with the spiders since I actually have to pick a number X. But it is almost infinite because I can say X is a googol or something. This is not really a question since the glyph power seems to allow this.

EDITED to included Question 2 in this first post.
It seems question one has already been addressed, so I'll just agree with the Rev and move on.

The reason question two wouldn't work is that it's an either/or sort of thing. If you choose to take a turn with the spiders instead of Sujoah, and then decide to take a turn with Sujoah because of predator bonding, and then swap that turn for turn with the spiders, that negates your original turn with the spiders. You can't have it both ways.

You're right, a simple re-phrasing would make this clearer, but the whole thing's pretty absurd...

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Old June 24th, 2008, 06:05 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaz1597 View Post
It seems question one has already been addressed, so I'll just agree with the Rev and move on.

The reason question two wouldn't work is that it's an either/or sort of thing. If you choose to take a turn with the spiders instead of Sujoah, and then decide to take a turn with Sujoah because of predator bonding, and then swap that turn for turn with the spiders, that negates your original turn with the spiders. You can't have it both ways.

You're right, a simple re-phrasing would make this clearer, but the whole thing's pretty absurd...
I agree that that shouldn't be allowed.

It did occur to me that the scenario designer probably phrased it as it is so that bonded figures can swap with the spiders. For example, if you activate the romans and they bond with say your Marcus and Marcus is on the Spider Totem, then you could take a turn with the spiders instead of Marcus and still take a turn with the romans. So perhaps a solution is to just say that the spiders do not bond in this scenario. That's likely how I'll play this scenario. My friends and I are scheduled to play this scenario tomorrow night. (Yay.)

Thanks for the opinions, everyone.
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Old June 24th, 2008, 07:58 PM
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Re: Jungle Guardians scenario questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by mathguy View Post
It did occur to me that the scenario designer probably phrased it as it is so that bonded figures can swap with the spiders. For example, if you activate the romans and they bond with say your Marcus and Marcus is on the Spider Totem, then you could take a turn with the spiders instead of Marcus and still take a turn with the romans.
Hmm...that's an interesting one. I suppose it doesn't really matter what we come up with here as long as everyone in your group is in agreement.

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