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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies. |
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#13
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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I would be willing to bet I have an army with Roman Archers that easily will kill 1/2 of your melee bonding army: 5x 10th 1x Roman Archers Raelin ---------------- 510 |
#14
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
Nice Rankings MM, and I acually agree with most of them. The two that really stand out to me here, are Guilty McCreech, and the Sentinels of Jandar.
By your own definitions Guilty belongs in the C to C- range. He's the most reliable thirty point hero. he has the advantage of having a normal, double attack of 2 (height gets that up to two attacks of three, which is one attack short of a "productive" turn). While some of the Wyrmlings or Elementals might have more specific battlefield roles, Guilty is the go-to guy if you're thirty points shy. That's his niche, when you're army is 30 points shy, barring a couple of builds (Knights come to mind) Guilty McCreech is your Man; he's so generally useful that he makes sense as the last thirty points in most any army. As far as the Sentinels go, I would think you of all people would recognize their worth. I was actually *this* close to running them at NHSD, after they tore-up my Greenscale/Zelrig army. Sentinels are good for the same reasons Raelin is, you just distribute the cost of drafting Raelin across your squads. Even against Big Z, they just don't die. Looking back, I'm actually surprised we didn't see more Sentinel builds when Atlaga came out . . . . Now, who's going to make the Definitive List of Power Rankings (we have three sets now right?) I don't need no instructions to know how to rock.
Last edited by Xn F M; October 26th, 2010 at 12:56 AM. Reason: "Definitive List" needed to be capitalized, and spelled correctly |
#15
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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2. Keep in mind that although the knights are slow, the archers are just as slow. And the knights are moving 5 figures per turn, as opposed to three. Not to mention the knight army only has one place to put OMs vs. 2 for your army. You probably wouldn't have time to set up a perfect pod on height before the knights reach you. 3. Even if you somehow managed to get all 6 squads of archers on height, the knights would still tear through them. 3 attacks of 3 against 4 defense<4-5 attacks of 3 against 2 defense. 4. As far as volley is concerned, I would be happy if you were targeting my heroes instead of my squads. Those four squads of knights could beat that army without any champions. You'd be much better off just going for the knights. I applaud your efforts to use underplayed "bad" units in armies, but the reality of it is the Roman Archers and DWs are outclassed by better units like knights. That doesn't mean you shouldn't play them, though. |
#16
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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However except for Rev's 4th x 4 / SoJ x 2 and I know one time Karhma had success with SoJ x 1, they aren't often in the top of tournaments. A C+ does mean they are better than average since C means average. I just think Guilty gets outshined by the other filler options more often than not. Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G |
#17
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
Yeah, how could you compare the Sentinel's sucess to the vast Tournament success of the River Tribe, Brave Arrow, Capuans and Theracus. The Sentinels have only won the above Tournaments whereas Theracus and Brave Arrow consistently are in tournament winning armies.
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#18
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
DA's snark aside, I guess I'm confused as to exactly what perspective you're writing from here.
If it's "what's done well and does well in my experience", then I can't see stingers at a B-. They're consistent winners in the hands of good players. If it's "what effective with and against a melee player", then I don't really see Q9 as an A+. He's really good, obviously, but he's not too scary to knights/heavies/axegrinders. He's tough for knights and axegrinders to beat if there are rats in the way, but that's more due to the rats than Q9 himself. Stingersx3 + ratsx3 + Raelin is at least as scary to knights as Q9 + ratsx3 + Raelin, and potentially more because they can get start dealing 3 attacks of 4 if they can find some height. (And it's much more scary to axegrinders.) |
#19
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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It's more (and perhaps I should change the title) from the perspective of a melee enthusiasts players perspective. Does that make sense? I figured my Stinger rating would be the most controversial with players. In my experiences with melee, especially melee bonding Stingers just lose almost every time. If it weren't for the back-stab of Hawthrone I think my tourney record against stingers with melee bonding armies would be like 15-0 (or something very close to that). Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G |
#20
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
The 1 player that fears Theracus more than Stingers it seems. Have to fear that 1 attack per OM and being able to transport 1 figure for 1 turn.
Also, considering there is no ignore button there is a particular irony in the comment |
#21
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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More to the point, melee has plenty of reasons to both fear and appreciate Theracus more than Stingers. Theracus provides mobility which can be difficult for melee to counter or which can be very appreciated by melee in getting important units into useful positions sooner. ~Aldin, ascendingly He either fears his fate too much or his desserts are small That dares not put it to the touch to gain or lose it all ~James Graham |
#22
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
I would suspect that the Phantom Knight's are walking the line between A- and B+ on your scale, with the only real disadvantage being a lack of bonding. Sure, Insubstantial is one of their stronger attributes when dealing with ranged, normal attacks. However, their mobility, coupled with stealth flying, really lets them choose targets of opportunity...Which seems like a real advantage when playing against a wall of melee. Of course, the unmodified defense of 4 does not hurt either (of the A and A- list, only the Knights of Weston have this, out of the gate).
With this in mind, what is your reasoning for keeping them at B+, rather than A-? The lack of bonding/lack of fourth squad member (either of which the squads on the A and A- list have)? |
#23
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
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@Aldin You said that better than I ever could. Dragon Dice - (the 2nd best game there is) Learn to Play! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h3q6...wujcr8vVf8e21G |
#24
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Re: A Melee Perspective on the HeroScape Power Rankings
Quick question, Matthias. Have you played much against Silver Surfer with pure melee? How did it work out? I see you put him down in the Bs so it must not have been too frightening.
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