AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

[Heirloom]

Originally Posted by chas

The important question is, what are our chances of getting the rest of the cards revealed, when the dust settles?

Should I start a new thread called AOA: Card News?

Seems unlikely to me, but feel free to: I would follow it! There is also some reading-between-the-lines that while we probably won’t see any more AoA cards, we may be able to get the latest versions of the beta-released card designs, to start Books.

[Grim]

Originally Posted by CapAp

Wow, this blew my mind when I read it. Me too. I have a question for people, I am genuinely curious.

Let's say Hasbro had decided to "relaunch" Heroscape with a re-release of the SOTM and ROTV sets instead of a new "Age" and lore reboot. One big set with the exact same (painted) units and terrain. What would we think a fair price would be here in 2022 for that amount of game material?

(Ignore the fact that all old fans already have the stuff and wouldn't want it on re-release. I'm only curious about perceived "value" in comparison to asking price.)

Costs for reproducing the terrain is a complete mystery to me, and I think many others. I'm assuming it's relatively low though.

Viable retail prices today, by total number of units, buckets of 100,000 / 10,000:

RotV = $100 / $140
SotM = $75 / $100

I'm assuming they have to recreate the molds like they said. I don't think that's a huge cost with enough units. With few units it's entirely infeasible. (I know a guy...)

Direct to consumer needs to add shipping, at least $20 per unit. Not familiar with those costs these days (used to be).

The biggest question is of course the painting. There is a HUGE difference in labor cost for painted vs. unpainted. Has been for years, but most nostalgia Heroscape people don't know this. It's a challenging subject/issue to say the least.

[Agent Minivann]

The suggestion to look to Heroquest is interesting in hindsight. Heroquest was released in 1989 with a $29.99 MSRP. It was the same game and contents? Quality of contents, I can't say. It sells today for $134.99. RotV was released in 2004 for $39.99 (SotM in 2007). Would a set somewhere in the RotV/SotM neighborhood succeeded at a 185-190 price point (roughly the same new to old price comparison as Heroquest)? Maybe closer to 20 minis for 150?

[Pumpkin_King]

I do not understand people who didn’t think this was Heroscape. It was. How on earth was it not? Did the card design really kill it that bad? The factions were all Heroscapey. Mind boggling.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

I do not understand people who didn’t think this was Heroscape. It was. How on earth was it not? Did the card design really kill it that bad? The factions were all Heroscapey. Mind boggling.

For me it was Scape for sure, through and through. But I think the pretty significant change in aesthetic is what made it too unScape-like for some. I disagree but understand.

My bigger disagreement was with complaints about particular cards or factions, to say they weren’t Scape. You don’t have to like everything, but just about anything can fit into the game. I have plenty of classic figures that I rarely, if ever used because I simply don’t care for them. Doesn’t make them any less HeroScape.

[Master Roshi]

Originally Posted by nyys

For me it was Scape for sure, through and through. But I think the pretty significant change in aesthetic is what made it too unScape-like for some. I disagree but understand.

My bigger disagreement was with complaints about particular cards or factions, to say they weren’t Scape. You don’t have to like everything, but just about anything can fit into the game. I have plenty of classic figures that I rarely, if ever used because I simply don’t care for them. Doesn’t make them any less HeroScape.

Thats how I felt, I liked the designs and just felt like it was a new direction for Heroscape which was fine by me. I think it might have been too much new stuff all at once, but the particular designs and factions were fine with me.
Another direction could have been three or four new factions, and then the remaining characters are filled with miscellaneous stuff fitting older factions

[GreatPlainsKnight]

Regardless of how people feel about the factions, I think it was a mistake to make Heroscape faction oriented. It seems limiting to have 5 factions that play almost entirely on their own. Heroscape was never about factions, it was about making your own armies and experimenting. You could play the Legionnaires with a variety of warlords, and have them fight side by side with Roman Archers, or redcoats, or ww2 soldiers, or maybe figures who didn't have any thematic or synergistic connection to them at all. The Venoc Warlord and Vipers could be drafted with Aubriens or Mohicans, it didn't matter.

Age of Annihilation would've done way better if it had a wide spread of units (like RotV) with a tight synergy web. For instance, some warriors could get an attack bonus when next to a fearless figure, that fearless figure could boost the d20 rolls of a soldier unit, that soldier unit could bond with a hero of their species, and that guy could do something that benefits someone else. If everything somehow tied together (I'm just spitballing ideas), you could mix and match and truly make your own army, rather than use a faction meant to be played by itself.

I mean imagine if it was a giant box with kato Katsuro and the Ashigaru and Samurai, the Hive and various marro, the Gladiators, the Elven Wizards, and Vydar Soulborgs, and you were told it was the battle of all time and you could build whatever army you want. Technically you could, but it wouldn't be optimal.

All of that being said, I backed the campaign because I liked the factions and everything new and innovative, like the new wall terrain and the squads with two life, I just think AoA wasn't the best thing to try and grab a new audience with or introduce said new audience to what Heroscape is all about. I also wish the Haslab thing was handled better, but that's a dead horse I ain't gonna beat.

[Good Pig]

The synergy web in AoA was very much akin to classic Scape in the new card designs that were revealed.
- Frostclaws bonding with Jandar or Volarak Champion so some OG units
- Dragoon exclusive unit was a Hivelord that would mesh well with Marro (Nagrubs Bonding)
- Queen Maladrix was a Devourer (atk bonus from werewolf guy)
- Xenithrax was a Dragon so would get Greenscales Bonding
- Pirate hero can make any unique squad Pirates class

I'm sure there's other stuff I missed. These are just from cards revealed too. Who knows what else was planned.

The design team didn't forget about fun mixing and matching that crossed over species, generals, or factions, this set had it in spades.

[artemiscorso]

For me it wasn't that the units weren't Heroscapish enough, just that they were amalgamated enough to make them vague. I like iconic and these were mostly not. The figures in the RotV set for instance you could go down the list and sum up with 1 or 2 words, or at most a short sentence. That's a dragon, that's a robot, those are WW2 soldiers, those are vikings, etc., etc. I can't do that with most of these figures.
I'm not trying to disparage the set, I think there were some really interesting things going on and the power sets look really balanced and well designed. I would I'm sure have a blast with these figures, and actually was kind of looking forward to painting them.

[IAmBatman]

For all the marketing focus on the factions, they didn't seem to have that much gameplay relevance. Same with the new generals.

[chas]

I assume that was all for the upcoming media blitz where they establish an IP for Heroscape Factions and spread their stories throughout the universe (Volume One: Sergeant Drake Jets to Laur).

Of course, in Japan, where they know something about marketing, the media blitz comes before the game is published...

[nyys]

I'm having a hard time understanding the issue some had with the factions. The game is littered with them. The Gruts are a faction, the Elves are a faction, Omnicrons, Knights, etc... The themes aside, was it because AoA had so much from a single faction all at once? Lack of variety? Better to have a small portion of each in a different iteration of a Master Set so we can talk about what each needs next?

Take Morsebane for instance, he and Sonlen, the original Elf magic wielders. For the longest time it was difficult to field him in an army since his main draw was an iffy Special Power and not much else. Placing OMs on him was kind of a waste, at least in a tourney map type setting. Then, the rest of the Elves came waves later with synergies to go with and suddenly Morsebane becomes more viable.

Was this the big issue with the factions? Too much at once? I just didn't see how it was any different than what we already had other than how they were going to be released.