AoA:Vanguard Campaign Postmortem

[Tmac2200]

I am not one to wish this never happened. I plan to use the units they previewed by finding alternative miniatures for the cards we were shown. I paint minis already so I'm sure I will either find something suitable for each card, or I'll kitbash some minis together. I'll take what I can get on all this.

I backed the project even though I knew it would fail. I had to be all in or else I'd think "what if" for the rest of my life.

I saw that one of the people working on the project wants us to hold off on making books for the units that were previewed... Not really sure why but maybe that means something may come down the pipes. I don't have my hopes up but we'll see what they say.

[IAmBatman]

Nothing's going to happen. Hold our breath if you like, but I think the healthiest thing the community could do is to no longer consider Hasbro part of the Heroscape picture. Obviously it's still their IP and no one here should be trying to sell it as a product for profit, but other than that, IMO, the canon, the future, etc., all belong to the community and we should decide how to use them.

I know VC is talking about this privately right now, but I think the community outside of them should consider discussing it as well:

How much of AoA should live on in the community? Should the new generals and new mechanics like multi-life squads be ignored or embraced? Should the teased cards be accepted as "official" products and should the community search for widely accepted figure proxies and/or 3D prints for the figures associated? Should the community embrace unpainted figures as a source for future community-accepted customs?

I think these are questions the wider community should discuss and weigh-in on. VC's going to do how they do, but the future of Scape belongs to the community at large (and this, as ever, is the hub of that community).

[chas]

This thread doesn't really belong in "News," but I understand that you wanted to put a cap on the two main AOA threads right next to them. I've decided not to post in them any longer, and gave my final appreciations there.

Even though I backed, Hasbro has done it to us again, and I'm not surprised at this point. But it would be fine if the game returned somehow. Since I'm 70 years old, it probably won't be in my lifetime. Toward the end of the campaign there, I was thinking it would be a final irony of they secretly realized their mistake, pumped in the rest of the money to fund, and then the company itself tanked before production began!

***

I would guess that their NDAs will prevent Craig and the War Council from releasing any more cards or from further developing them. Having everyone develop them as they please would be chaotic, and deny them play at many group events. Having other (non War Council) C3V members step in to do that might work. The unreleased cards will remain in limbo, I'd expect, for legal reasons. I did wonder if the last card releases were a bit of guerilla warfare against Hasbro to get them to us! I'd support making the new concepts like multi life squads canon for us here, why not? More well designed Scape is good.

I think "what worked and what didn't" in the campaign has been chewed over more than enough, and is irrelevant to our purposes here, other than yet more venting. (Do you want to hear more about how I hate Disney for sabotaging the John Carter movie? I thought not.) The Avalon Hill folks said they would have "deep discussions" after the campaign, but if that won't include how to further develop Scape, why would we care? We're not their marketing department.

Thanks for pointing us towards the community future, Bats. That's where its at now!

(At least until the next brilliant Hasbro corporate suit decision somewhere down the line. Hah. All of us older fellows have all worked for idiot bosses who we had to keep afloat, and then watch as they took credit for our ideas).

PS: For the pure positivity I breathe into my local Scape scene, see my signature line.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Master Roshi

I'm not interested in the lore. I wouldn't have read any books/comics/ etc were they to have been released; I'm here for the game
If they want to make that content for the section of the player base who want to read lore then that's fine but it should have come later once the actual purpose of Heroscape is established.

I'm not a big lore person either but many love it. I think it was good (even necessary) to have it at the ready from the start (whether the direction was liked or not), gotta appeal to as many as possible.

[IAmBatman]

Just to put it on record: I personally would not (and will not, in the unlikely event it becomes relevant) support another crowdfunding effort from Hasbro for Heroscape (or, really, for anything). If they want to invest in bringing Heroscape back at some point, I'd consider supporting the official product then (probably just terrain), but I'm not interested in supporting the return of "official" product with more zeal than they do themselves and won't be going down that road again.

As far as I'm concerned, Hasbro is a non-entity when it comes to Heroscape.

[Good Pig]

Originally Posted by nyys

I'm not a big lore person either but many love it. I think it was good (even necessary) to have it at the ready from the start (whether the direction was liked or not), gotta appeal to as many as possible.

Heroscape as a concept is great. The lore aspect has always been the least interesting part about Heroscape to me. People and creatures can come from anywhere and any time. Trying to make a cohesive narrative out of that... Also the recognizable characters were clearly "borrowed" from other IPs like The Matrix, Charlie's Angels, Old Western movies. Anyone with a little bit of pop culture and history knowledge can assemble the pieces without needing backstories.

Because of seemingly how much time and focus was spent on lore, releases 2-3 years down the road, new Valkyrie generals, concept art, a new brand bible... I'm thinking relaunch was never originally intended to be a Haslab. Spending time on any of that stuff does not make sense for a game that doesn't yet exist.

Speculation: Along the way something happened (poor quarterly earnings report?) and a Hasbro executive said this project needs to pay its own way and it needs to be wrapped up before Thanksgiving. Then Avalon Hill had to scramble and we have the mess of a campaign we just experienced. Either that or there was major overconfidence based on the Heroquest campaign and the subsequent expansions they've been selling for it and they thought this game would sell itself.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Just to put it on record: I personally would not (and will not, in the unlikely event it becomes relevant) support another crowdfunding effort from Hasbro for Heroscape (or, really, for anything). If they want to invest in bringing Heroscape back at some point, I'd consider supporting the official product then (probably just terrain), but I'm not interested in supporting the return of "official" product with more zeal than they do themselves and won't be going down that road again.

As far as I'm concerned, Hasbro is a non-entity when it comes to Heroscape.

Like what AH did with the war council, Hasbro, if there is ever a next time, should pull in some Scapers along with seasoned crowdfunding vets to consult on what the HasLab should look like/offer/etc...

[Knox]

Originally Posted by Good Pig

Speculation: Along the way something happened (poor quarterly earnings report?) and a Hasbro executive said this project needs to pay its own way and it needs to be wrapped up before Thanksgiving. Then Avalon Hill had to scramble and we have the mess of a campaign we just experienced. Either that or there was major overconfidence based on the Heroquest campaign and the subsequent expansions they've been selling for it and they thought this game would sell itself.

This is fairly reckless speculation but it definitely felt like this or something similar. There's no way the campaign that released was the full campaign they planned to release - either they were lazy (I find that incredibly unlikely) or shortstaffed (also unlikely bc they couldve gotten almost anyone they wanted form the community to volunteer) or Hasbro sped up the time table on them out of the blue

[IAmBatman]

We were told they put months of preparation into the campaign. I didn't feel like that way to me when the campaign started, but that's what's on the record.

[Hogg]

I think ultimately the problem was this was conceived by a non-fan who did not understand what HeroScape was or why it had appeal.

[nyys]

Originally Posted by Hogg

I think ultimately the problem was this was conceived by a non-fan who did not understand what HeroScape was or why it had appeal.

Which unfortunately has plagued the game since it's inception.

[Finrod]

I backed it and encouraged others to do the same. I would do so again.

I still love Heroscape. Always will.

I'm happy for the gang that enjoys C3V and so on, but it's not for me. No offense at all: I think you're doing great work. But after the first wave or two, I gave up on it. The difficulty and expense of trying to track down the various miniatures used was too much (especially when one member of a squad could only be obtained with buying a big pack, etc.). I lost my motivation.

So when AoA showed up, I jumped at the chance, returned to this forum for the first time in forever, and got excited.

And then the excitement faded day by day. I was mocked on FB and BGG. The campaign faltered from the beginning. We all knew it would fail after the first week, but we tried to tell ourselves lies, with various degrees of success.

And now the chance is over and gone. I'm just sad.