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#2701
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
My understanding is that the Bonny in AoA *is* Anne Bonny; just with equipment upgrades after years on Valhalla (which is a Heroscape trope; see Sgt. Drake's Katana, Grapple Arm, etc.). My understanding could be wrong.
With that said I do hope we see a Pirate common squad soon, along with other more Historical-looking figures. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV Last edited by caps; October 24th, 2022 at 11:57 AM. Reason: Should be pretty easy to swallow any "cultural consultant" fees once the project has been backed and new sets are in the work |
#2702
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
See, that's what Encarmine implied about "Pirate Captain Bonny" (as she was identified in the concept art) at some point, but her actual card identifies her specifically as Fia Bonny, which demarcates her as a different character (unless Fia has some meaning I'm not aware of; I'm assuming it's a first name here, but it could be some obscure term with a different meaning). You're right that it would make perfect sense to include Anne Bonny and give her various fantasy/sci-fi upgrades ala Sgt. Drake or Valguard, but I don't think that's what is going on with Fia Bonny, judging by the different first name.
The user formerly known as Bloody the Marro Stinger! |
#2703
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
The main thing with historical units as a possibility in future expansions is to really work with outside organizations in the future to make sure you're giving representation to cultures that deserve it and not shining a pseudo positive light onto negative/bad armies/governments/dictators of the past.
For example, I think it would've been awesome to see a common squad based on a mix of the Dora Milaje from Black Panther and Dahomey Amazons from The Woman King. Edit: but then again, reading the wiki of the Dahomey..... Maybe having historical units is legitimately a very hard thing to pull off nowadays. I can see having more of a steampunk pirate look kind of distances from certain aspects could be similar to the Dora Milaje are kind of an advanced Dahomey. Upset City Baby. |
#2704
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
I don't think any historical unit should be off limits based on them having done bad things. Considering pretty much every human army or warrior culture that has ever existed has done bad things. You just have to accept that humans are bad and often do bad things. If you can't accept that, then you can't have any historic units, which would be a damn shame. And sadly it seems to be the route they are going.
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#2705
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
The thing is, I agree with most of what's been said about why historical units generally might be more difficult to include nowadays. It would be difficult to include Indigenous units in the game now, for instance, though not impossible by any means; the recently-released (and quite good) Prey, for which the staff hired a predominantly Comanche cast and worked with Comanche cultural organizations and consultants, demonstrates this. Including Indigenous units, however, would require an undertaking of the sort that Avalon Hill (understandably) would feel much more comfortable doing after the Age of Annihilation set gets fully backed and released. I get all of that.
None of that, however, is responsive to the specific point I was trying to raise in my post. What I'm getting at, specifically, is that it seems to me that there's a historical figure in the form of Anne Bonny that Avalon Hill could have included even considering the constraints the team is working under and its desire to be respectful of other cultures, as no social or political group that I am aware of would be upset by her inclusion. Instead, Avalon Hill included a sci-fi pirate whose name simply nods to Bonny despite the fact Anne Bonny would seemingly (from my admittedly limited understanding of the history involved) be an easy historical unit to add in a set that barely has any, and I'm trying to wrap my head around why this is the case. Is there some controversy surrounding Anne Bonny that I'm not aware of? Who would be upset by her inclusion? The user formerly known as Bloody the Marro Stinger! |
#2706
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
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There’s been a lot of push back on games that feature colonization as a mechanic or objective for this same reason, so like it or not, it’s a real thing that needs to be considered now and navigating it is not easy for game publishers. It often feels like not only can you not please everyone, but sometimes you can’t please anyone. |
#2707
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
I guess they just felt like doing interesting name takes versus a direct one. You can compare this to Retiarius, which is actually just a general name of net using gladiators and not a specific person and Spartacus. Also with C3V, Arthur of Sherwood, which is a take on Robin Hood and Heracles, though those are both mythical figures, but in a more historical sense over a fantasy sense. The space pirates I guess you could maybe think of as historical in a future sense.....oxymoron I know lol
Upset City Baby. |
#2708
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
Of course not. What they should do is have the person in charge defer in some respects to others who are more knowledgeable, so that you avoid situations where the former says, "Hey, what if we replaced the skulls on the dice with swords or an explosion symbol?" only for the latter to remind them, "Umm... a lot of the old cards, not to mention the cards we're working on right now, literally refer to skulls on the dice." Basically, some of these decisions might be better off left to the kind of person who can recite the Flying text from memory, y'know?
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#2709
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
By and large I'm fine with including historical units. There should be cultural consultants to ensure accuracy in their portrayal, but overall I think the topic is a bit too moralized. I don't think any developer should have to live in fear of being cancelled because of a creative choice they made, but these are the times we live in.
There are certainly some obvious figures to not include. Nonetheless it's possible to include figures that aren't as controversial, and Heroscape has mostly done that in the past. |
#2710
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
I think having an homage name rather than a direct name is a reasonable path for historical figures. I think the biggest thing about historical figures isn't the name, it's the aesthetic. Translating Bonny into a steampunk sci-fi pirate doesn't really meet the historical "aesthetic," which is why she's not scanning as "historical" to folks.
In other news, if they make the Penguin with a machine gun an unlockable stretch goal for hitting 4,000 backers, I'd back today. They need to start doing some stuff like that to get some energy back in this campaign. It's flagging right now and they don't need to just "wait and see". C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.
DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards. |
#2711
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
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They really need to do something major to get to 4,000 orders before the last three days to really seem like there's a decent chance. Upset City Baby. |
#2712
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Re: Heroscape: Age of Annihilation is here! Back it on Hasla
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I understand what they're going for with this set being the years after the war starts and how groups have settled into valhalla. but still, I think a bunch of actual history/fantasy swashbuckling pirates would have gone a long way for the historic units crowd vs high tech pirates. similarly, if that is the theme of the set, I think more things like marro pirates, roman gladiators who have snagged a chaingun at some point, or elves and gruts who realized they aren't so different and blended into one army could have been a more interesting approach vs using a bunch of factions we've never seen before. I don't dislike the new factions though and think there is some interesting material there. On their own, robot lich is awesome. steampunk redwall is great. I think they fit right in with the style of heroscape. but I think it's suffering because there is a lot of new stuff and not as much tying it back to the old game for being a campaign that seems to be totally relying on nostalgia buyers. FWIW, I haven't backed yet but I am planning to closer to the end of the campaign. |
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