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  #589  
Old February 7th, 2023, 04:52 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Congrats to Honor and @Flash_19 !
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  #590  
Old February 10th, 2023, 04:43 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
Aftermath by @Sir Heroscape

Playtesting confirmed my initial worries about this map Ė the map pulls right to the point of being problematic. It is far too easy to grab high ground to the right and set up a decent pod, even with the ruin placement (this is even more true for the small ruin side). It feels like battlements have been used to try and hinder development on the right side, but the placement of those battlements really donít accomplish much, and the inclusion of the ladder on the right side out of the start zone only aggravates the problem. While I didnít test this build specifically, a greenscales/dragon build can set up shop on the highest ground too easily and quickly.

Ravines are tricky to get right on a map, and with this one, the ravine is quite deep in spots with three or 4 movement being required to get from the double hex wide road back up onto height again. This will lead to figures struggling at times with getting from one side to the other. From my experience with the map, this is particularly true for double based melee figures. I think the way this ravine is positioned also allows for some potentially frustrating instances of double base denial that can be too punishing. The ladders in the ravine help slightly (though not with double based figures), but not enough to make a significant difference.

I feel like the middle side sections would benefit greatly from being reworked (basically the level 3 road and everything adjacent to it Ė including tree placement, battlements, and all the level 4 height), and I definitely want to see some changes to development out the right side of the start zone.

I vote to induct Aftermath.
I'll join Flash's vote here. The rightward push is just too much. Both the ladder moving right out of the starting zone and the water in the starting zone (which limits leftward movement much more than rightward movement) contribute to this push.

I don't like yours-and-mine height, and the level 4 placements don't work for me here. It's too easy to just take and hold your own 2-hex, and the central one is easily taken moving right.

I'm generally not a fan of 2-wide roads, and the central chasm here is a good reason why: it pushes heights further away without (usually) any benefit. You could perhaps perform a central starting zone rush with it, but that's not a strategy I'm particularly interested in (and I think you'd still be in trouble against someone moving right out of their SZ onto height).

NO to induct.
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  #591  
Old February 10th, 2023, 04:56 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Notice that our new timer rule is coming into play: Caothland has been adjusted so it times out on June 21st, not the 10th.
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  #592  
Old February 11th, 2023, 05:18 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Desolation by Flash_19


Desolation is a map that takes advantage of WoS's lack of terrain restrictions in a new way: it's the first submitted map with 2x SotM. I will say that this gave me pause at first, but playing on the map more made me appreciate the double-swarm combo.

This map sorta-kinda-but-definitely-not-really has a 4-way symmetry (mirror symmetry along both axes) which means that one of the interesting things to look at is the differences between the left and right side.

Left side has:
  • quicker access to the central level 3 single-space perch
  • quicker access to the level 4 double-space perch
  • more consistent jungle coverage

Right side has:
  • quicker access to the outer level 3 3-hexes by the glyph
  • quicker access to the glyph
  • quicker access to the level 4 single-space perch

These differences are only by a space in either direction, but are enough to make you think about your initial placement and which direction you lean.

As with Honor, I'm not wild about the split start zones, but here I think it's much more effective as a concept. The map has a bunch of safe level 2 which has easy access from both sides, forming a kind of central "battle zone" between the two Hives. Having the SZs split allows either side to get around the Hive faster and into the action sooner. And best of all, run-of-the-mill 5-move figures can reach a safe level 2 landing on either side from multiple spots in either half of the SZ.

Jungle is placed well, the Raelin perch is accessible enough to not feel tortuous, especially since it's kind of a back-to-the-wall spot where she can't retreat without giving up the massive chunks of the map. It's a nice little concession: "you want a Raelin spot? Sure! Here's one that's uncomfortably close to the action!"

The level 3 sand 7-hexes with the level 4 tops provide a dynamic central height feature, and although I wish that SotM had enough sand singles that the rock 1-hexes didn't have to get forced into duty, the aesthetics don't suffer too much from that.

to induct.

Last edited by superfrog; February 12th, 2023 at 10:58 PM.
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  #593  
Old February 11th, 2023, 05:43 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

I'll toss this in here for consideration.

Mome Raths
Uses: 2 BftU, 1 TJ



What to say about it? Maps using 2 BftU and 1 TJ aren't new, of course. But most of the previous ones — such as The Borogoves, Jabberwock, and, most recently, the excellent Canary — have explored a single central shadow pool, something that goes all the way back to Mad_Wookiee's seminal Sirocco. Mome Raths, in contrast, essentially splits that single central shadow pool (and its doubled defense through jungle) into two, deploying it to provide cover for units advancing from either side towards a central high ground.

It's appeared at two tournaments in its current form:
Utah Monthly August 2022
Wisconsin Monthly Tournaments

And will soon appear in its third tournament here (its second appearance at Utah, thanks to @BiggaBullfrog ):
Utah Monthly February 2023

Positive feedback comes from @Cor7770 , organizer of the Wisconsin tourney, who wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cor7770 View Post
The map played great! I was playing wyverns and spiders and I went up the middle with most of my army. Even though it was lower ground the shadow made it competitive to be there. It was interesting because my opponent that match stuck to the sides that game, so seeing how that map can play in two different ways made it a lot of fun to play on!
Thanks for your consideration!

Last edited by Typhon2222; February 14th, 2023 at 12:26 AM.
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  #594  
Old February 11th, 2023, 08:08 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Thank you for the submission, I have been looking to try Mome Raths for a while now!
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  #595  
Old February 12th, 2023, 10:17 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

PSA: I usually make myself wait at least a day after writing a review before posting it so I can review for errors and/or clarity. Desolation times out tonight, and I was busting out games on it to make sure I have a vote on it, so waiting to post the votes isn't going to happen. I may edit more for clarity over the next couple of days, but the core of the reviews (and the votes!) will be the same. (The English teacher in me demands that I let you know that proofreading is important and will happen! )

Desolation by @Flash_19


For being so large, I found Desolation to be surprisingly fast. With much of the map being open pathing on level 2, figures can generally get to where they want to be in only a couple of moves. I had an initial concern about podding being too painful of a strategy as one army tried to cross the map under fire, but I never had an issue pushing across the map due to the wide movement lanes and jungle cover.

To me, it was this level 2 pathing that was the biggest draw about the map. You have a lot of freedom on this map to play whatever strategy you're looking to use. You can play defensive by developing onto the big swaths of landing area outside the start zones and claiming your height slowly, or make more of an aggressive play by grabbing the strong seven-hexers early on (which, again due to easy pathing, only takes a couple of moves for most figures). You can stick to a smaller area by choosing one start zone to focus on and moving figures over from the other start zone as needed (a surprisingly smooth task), or you can go for a wider map control by taking the power spots. This gives what you want out of a big map by providing a lot of flexibility while keeping games flowing with ease of movement.

I'll admit to not loving everything about this map. Like superfrog, I don't love the split start zones as much as I'd want to, but, once again, the strong pathing largely makes up for that. I also found the stereotyped melee v range matchup to be more boring than that matchup usually is as there's less height variation to play around. However, this map has big big strengths with ease of movement and flexible options that make it ripe for tournament play. I vote YES to induct.

Percolator by @Ulysses


This map does something that I've seen a lot of maps try to do by using two very different approaches to the main central area. One approach is lower, faster, and has more jungle cover. The other approach goes up to higher height, making it a little slower but stronger. Usually, when I see this attempted with maps, the approach with higher height is almost always the correct choice and leads to more wins, and I expected that to be the case with Percolator as well. However, the more I saw other people discussing the map the less that seemed to be the case.

In practice, this map plays really well -- much better than I initially thought it would. The quick climb to high ground is slower than you'd first think, with good level staggering to slow down your figures. The ruins are also very well placed to block LoS from figures that do get to the level 3 area. It's still a strong and rewarding position, but it doesn't dominate the game like I've seen on similar maps.

The level 2 side of the map has a lot of landings and jungle cover to help figures advance. You also get two pathways onto level 3 from there through the central area (a bit faster) and the far left side (slower, but this leads directly to the level 4 spots). It's a good staging area, and the limits on the level 3 side mean you can develop into and push from this area without being super punished.

This map offers a lot of development choices, and each one feels rewarding. The level 4 hexes provide further tactical use in deciding when to push for them and making sure you have resources to keep them. I think it's really impressive that Ulysses was able to take a concept that I'm used to seeing fail and was able to make it work. I vote YES to induct.

Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports
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"I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19

Last edited by BiggaBullfrog; February 13th, 2023 at 07:48 PM.
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  #596  
Old February 12th, 2023, 11:47 PM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

I've played a lot of games online with Sheep, trying out and testing many of his maps, and my two favorites have been Yngvild Pass (which has been nominated) and this one, Nomanisan:


Requires: 1 RotV, 1 FotA, 1 TJ, and 1 VW
.PDF Download

Nomanisan is a very different, but fun build. I feel like the main problem with VW maps isn't so much the molten lava or having lava field tiles, it's dealing with the four 7-hex lava fields and avoiding them being dead zones. This map gets by that with the implementation of ladders. They make the spots easier to traverse and gives an option of jumping off of the lava height but still having a height advantage in most spots...it's an interesting dynamic (and one I'd like to see more maps utilize). The jungle on this map are well placed, they provide the alternative spots to oppose things sitting from height (lava field or ladders) attacking down, and the two bushes and tree are really nice for developing out of the start zone. The jump points from the jungle, along with the ladders/heighted lava field combo makes for a lot of interesting options. There are also a few spots you can place a figure hugging two battlements providing cover, also making for nice jump points. The glyphs are a little out of the way but not too much. They seem more optional than most maps (still depends on the glyphs, and matchups, like always), but still drive movements/tactics. And the treasure glyphs have been interesting to try and go for and when to do so. Lastly, the ruins in the start zones are pretty funky. But, I have had multiple games where I've wrapped around them in my start zone (when my opponent was close by) and games I've maneuvered around my opponent's. A lot of maps where ruins are placed in the start zones they are kind of just a nuisance, but I like these ones, I do think in a lot of games they will contribute to gameplay.

With a slew of options deciding between jungle, hugging battlements, ladders, heighted lava field, glyphs, or treasure glyphs, Nomanisan is a really fun map that provides a fresh feel to a competitive match. I'd like the WoS to consider it and try some games on it, I think it's a really neat one, and solid too.

Events with Nomanisan used:
Peoria - August '22
OHS Season 48

Last edited by Cleon; February 13th, 2023 at 01:11 PM.
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  #597  
Old February 13th, 2023, 12:06 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Thanks for the nomination @Cleon !

Last edited by Sheep; February 13th, 2023 at 01:20 AM. Reason: The only things I asked him to do were add the links (FAIL) and say how it's quite an "Incredible" map (FAIL) ;)
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  #598  
Old February 13th, 2023, 12:48 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Congrats to @Flash_19 for an historical record breaking 6th map induction into the BoV and/or WoS!

Last edited by Sheep; February 13th, 2023 at 01:35 PM. Reason: Somehow miscounted despite having a spreadsheet lol
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  #599  
Old February 13th, 2023, 04:45 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

I don't know if I played it enough to give a proper vote but from playing it a few times I can only confirm what other judges said on Perculator.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that the map doesn't "pull right"at all, the Jungle pieces are very cleverly placed and give a very interesting range vs melee machup. This map is very similar to Quasacht Playground and I find it to be superior gameplay wise while using one less jungle set. I do like that the "rocky bridge" is more open and easier to attack into on Percolator than on Quasacht Playgound and I also prefer the shape of the startzones of Percolator.
Absolutely 0 yellow flags on this map, very happy to see it included.


Last edited by Foudzing; February 13th, 2023 at 08:24 AM.
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  #600  
Old February 13th, 2023, 11:15 AM
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

Congratulations @Flash_19 on the 6-peat! Truly an unparalleled level of consistency.
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