The Holocron of Swamps of Dagobah

[Karat]

I like it not being spread out. Swamps are dense and hard to move through. Also, no DO for the swamp creature. it makes it too complicated IMHO.

[Yodaking]

I think we need to keep any swamp creature special rules simple. We already have the neutral Wampas on a previous map, we can do something different here. The D20 roll for getting stuck or wounded when entering or exiting a swamp water space from before was a great starting point.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Karat

I like it not being spread out. Swamps are dense and hard to move through.

But it's bad for gameplay. I think when you're using a SotM set, it already looks like a swamp. No need to make it "dense" and bad for gameplay to make it look more like a swamp. (especially once you add the Swamp Creature who can slow your movement)

If anything, we could also make moving through swamp water take 2 move like heavy snow (or slippery ice).

Originally Posted by Yodaking

I think we need to keep any swamp creature special rules simple. We already have the neutral Wampas on a previous map, we can do something different here.

That's what I thought, but I figured I'd take a shot at it. (it would've also been a nice bump to Auggies so that was cool...)

Anyways, this looked good:

SWAMP CREATURE
Whenever a figure would enter or begin its movement on a swamp water tile, roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll a 1-4, that figure's move immediately ends and that figure receives one wound.
- If you roll a 5 or higher, nothing happens.

And picture of updated SZs:

[Karat]

I wasn't aware of those Jungle piece rules, good to know. With that, here is my revision.

VS file

As for the Swamp Creature special rule, that seems a little too simple. Something more like this seems more appropriate to me.

SWAMP CREATURE
Whenever a figure would enter or begin its movement on a swamp water tile, roll the 20-sided die.
- If you roll a 1-3, that figure's movement immediately ends and that figure receives one wound.
- If you roll a 4-7, that figure's movement immediately ends.
- If you roll an 8 or higher, nothing happens.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Karat

I wasn't aware of those Jungle piece rules, good to know. With that, here is my revision.

VS file

As for the Swamp Creature special rule, that seems a little too simple. Something more like this seems more appropriate to me.

Swamp Creature rule works for me but the map doesn't. I got three error messages due to pieces not having support under them. Then also the 7-hex rock piece to the left of the pic is gonna fall with anything like a Dragon or AT-ST on it.

As far as gameplay, there's no real strategy except for a race to the sides or to the glyphs. And the aesthetics are messy, IMO.

[Karat]

And yours is boring IMO and very unswamplike.

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by Karat

I toyed around with HS' revision and came up with this.

VS file

I think it looks more like a swamp in this manner and I do like having the islands out in the middle.

I like this, but without the 24hex rock pieces on the ends (it's too spread out and looks more like an oasis) and without the side wings. I really prefer the 3x 7hex island over the 1x 7hex.

If I can find some time I'll try to make a map showing what I'm talking about.

[Sheep]

Crap typing from my ipod and fat fingered submit reply.

I'll type my thoughts from a computer.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Karat

And yours is boring IMO and very unswamplike.

Subjective statement.

As far as me saying that the aesthetics are messy, they are. Most people, including myself, try to cover up grass on maps including SotM.

In fact, I recall playing a game on Phlegrean Fields and posting a pictured battle report in which I didn't use glyphs (so the 2 single-hex rock pieces were exposed) and typhon2222 posted this:

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

I had to laugh. At first I saw the single rock tile sticking out like a sore thumb in the bottom pic and thought, oh man, did I really leave that exposed?! Then I remembered it's the glyph space.

A single rock space on a swamp map and one of the best map builders thought it looked like a sore thumb. Personally, I don't think rock on a swamp map is bad, but grass is.

And how does a map with swamp and jungle not look swamp-like?

Originally Posted by White Knight

I like this, but without the 24hex rock pieces on the ends (it's too spread out and looks more like an oasis) and without the side wings. I really prefer the 3x 7hex island over the 1x 7hex.

You would remove the SZs?

Then what would you do? And as I mentioned earlier, the bush pieces on the sides are illegally placed.

[Karat]

Never thought about trying to cover up all grass.

VS file

[White Knight]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

You would remove the SZs?

Then what would you do? And as I mentioned earlier, the bush pieces on the sides are illegally placed.

Yes and no.

I would remove the 24 hex rock spaces and MOVE the start zones to swamp (and possibly sand) tiles. Basically shrinking the map. As I said above, it seems too spread out right now--too long to move figures up AND cross the swamp.

We still need start spaces of course, but there is no rule that they must be on their own separate 24 hex piece.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by White Knight

Yes and no.

I would remove the 24 hex rock spaces and MOVE the start zones to swamp (and possibly sand) tiles. Basically shrinking the map. As I said above, it seems too spread out right now--too long to move figures up AND cross the swamp.

We still need start spaces of course, but there is no rule that they must be on their own separate 24 hex piece.

I disagree that it's to long to move figures up and across the swamp. (I'll post more on this later after church)

Also, while we are trying to balance our figures with Classic, I don't think we need to balance our maps with Classic. And I think that's obvious with maps like Death Star Hallways, Beggar's Canyon, and such. Therefore, 5 move and range is basically the metagame.

I made a pathing map of my latest version of the map (updated SZs):



As you can see, both sides are easily accessible, but going to the left from your respective SZ is slightly slower to height than going to the right (I've made a running change to this). With 5+ move figures, at least one glyph is accessible by the 2nd turn.

Like I said, I'll post more later, but that's it for right now. I don't think it looks more like a swamp than it does an oasis. An oasis would have water instead of swamp, IMO. I mean, people that hallucinate in the desert don't see a bunch of swamp, they see water.