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  #109  
Old March 11th, 2022, 01:15 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

Thanks!

This passes.
With no one signing up for the Lawmaster, this could be awhile.
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  #110  
Old March 20th, 2022, 08:00 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM
NAME OF THE TEST UNIT King Ghidorah
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: King Ghidorah (1000) vs Superman, Super-Man, Steel, Emil Hamilton (Visor and Shrink Ray) (1000)
Unit Summary
Damage: 17 wounds dealt.
Abilities: Lightning Bolts once to do 3 total Auto wounds, used Gravity Beams Twice.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: King Ghidorah (1000) vs Captain Marvels (Shazamily) (1000)
Unit Summary
Damage: 20 wounds dealt
Abilities: Used Lightning twice. Never needed Gravity Beam.
Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Ghidorah (1000) vs Superman Family (Kal, Kara, Kon) (1000)
Unit Summary
Damage: 14 Damage dealt
Abilities: Used Gravity each round, Lightning Bolts in the second.

Spoiler Alert!

_____________________________________________________________
General Thoughts: He’s quite the damage dealer. I do think a lot of the stats are in a nice sweet spot. Only things I’d consider as potential changes could be letting him lose a head earlier (but this may just be from me having 2 times where he was at 1 life before losing heads), or allowing normal attacks after gravity beams. Not totally solid on the second one, as that might be a bit much on offensive potential early on.
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  #111  
Old March 20th, 2022, 08:26 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

Thanks!
Why would losing a head earlier help him?
I also had multiple games where he was at 1 Life.
I tried Gravity Beams on top of the normal attacks and it was brutal.
Maybe allow it once per game?
Only other tweak would be more Life.
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  #112  
Old March 20th, 2022, 08:40 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

My thought was letting him lose a head to ignore like a big hit. I think at least once he took like, 5 wounds in a single hit. Potentially useful to sacrifice a head to ignore, but not sure.

Yeah I kinda figured it would probably feel more brutal. My worry with more like if it just takes longer to start curbing the multi attack which is harsher for some army styles.
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  #113  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:18 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordVenoc View Post
My thought was letting him lose a head to ignore like a big hit. I think at least once he took like, 5 wounds in a single hit. Potentially useful to sacrifice a head to ignore, but not sure.

Yeah I kinda figured it would probably feel more brutal. My worry with more like if it just takes longer to start curbing the multi attack which is harsher for some army styles.
Actually I tried Winged Lightning Bolts with the normal attacks.
Also tried 7 Attack. Both felt a little too powerful.


How about letting WLB inflict 2 wounds on non-Huge figures?
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  #114  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:19 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

That could work as well. It felt like a great finisher when things were whittled down, but that could make it feel much more generally versatile.
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  #115  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:19 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

I think letting him choose to lose a head like that would be cool mechanically, if the theme jives for people.
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  #116  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:24 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I think letting him choose to lose a head like that would be cool mechanically, if the theme jives for people.
Why would anyone ever choose to lose a head?
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  #117  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:30 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

I've been old I lose my head all the time.

But yeah, that's why I'm struggling with it thematically. It feels like you, the player, are forcing Ghidorah to do something he wouldn't want to do as a character, which I feel like we normally try to avoid.
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  #118  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:40 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidora (Breathing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
THREE HEADED MONSTER
Start the game with two gold Head Markers on this card. King Ghidorah may attack with his normal attack an additional time for each Head Marker on this card. If Ghidorah would be destroyed, or receives 3 or more wounds at once for the first time in a game, instead remove a Head Marker to ignore any wounds inflicted.
Something like this could work thematically. No choice involved.
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  #119  
Old March 21st, 2022, 12:42 PM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

With that I can pretty much expect to lose a head the first time I am attacked.
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  #120  
Old March 24th, 2022, 09:47 AM
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Re: The Book of King Ghidorah (Public Testing)

Results from toyhandle and Skinderella.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: KING GHIDORAH

Army Test
Map: Dark Dimension
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Mr. Fantastic (235), Invisible Woman (215), Silver Surfer (400), Iceman (150) (1000)

Results:
*Here I had misinterpreted the Roll of 5 for the SA as separate rolls instead of one for all, and rolled a second time for Iceman. He would have blocked the initial roll of 5, which only yielded 1 skull. This means he would not have died from Lightning wings in R1T3. This was the only instance of this mistake though.

I donít think Icemanís extra wound made too much of a difference in terms of game outcome. Ghidorah zoomed in and struck like lightning, dealing too many huge blows for the F4 to recover. Losing Sue R1T2 meant picking off the remaining members was easy work for Ghidorah, with his variety of offensive options.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map: Conflict Cherobyl
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Songbird (180), Atlas (270), Techno (150), Meteorite (210), Citizen V (190) (1000)

Results:
Ghidorah was able to move from high value target to high value target, destroying one after another in rapid succession until there were only progressively weaker opponents.
Atlas did most of the work for his team, with a decent last stand from V.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: City Park
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Godzilla (1000)

Results:
Godzilla had supremely low attack rolls, and weak or nonexistent defense (R1T1 took 5 wounds in 1 attack and 3 whiffs in a row R2T1 for 7 wounds). Ghidorah grabbed height early, and had massive attacks, which made this the most blowout win of any of the games.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Martian War Zone
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Surtur (1000)

Results:
Closest match of the game, because Surtur had Negated Ghidorah for 3 of 8 of Ghidorahís turns. Surtur had almost half his life zapped R1T2 and struggled to gain height on Ghidorah, but was almost able to pull through, with this match ending with Ghidorah on his very last life.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

Army Test
Map: Ravaged Road
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Baron Zemo, Wiccan, D.Va, She-Hulk (A), Lightning Bolt x1, Healing Energy x1 1000pts
Results:
One final test against the army that was destroying Biollante in Skinderella and my tests for her. And the team did even better than they did against Biollante, with Ghidorah only dealing out a total of 6 wounds. Wiccan failed to take off any Head Markers off with Reality Warper, but it didnít matter, as She-Hulk took Ghidorah to 11 wounds, Objected my next turn, and the next two heads came off quickly after that.

Looking back, possibly could have been a closer turnout if I had focused on She-Hulk while Ghidorah still had three heads.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Cost and Draftability are pretty much non issues for this character in this game, as heís meant to be a solo 1000pt character.
As far as balance goes, I honestly felt heíd be fine without a second head marker. Which is fitting, as I donít think heís ever lost more than 1 head in a movie. I suppose in an army of several heavy hitters, he may actually need/require that extra head, but he was dominating so much of the time, if there were no second head marker, Games 1 and 2 would have been close wins, game 3 would be a closer win (still big), and Game 4 would be a close loss instead of a close win. Although, if I didnít have the second head marker, I might not have the confidence to play so aggressively. But now with the knowledge of how useful just 1 marker is, I would probably play him the same with just 1.

He kind of reminds me of Guy Gardner, as a massive heavy hitter that can burn out quickly.
I donít really see the loss against She-Hulk as indicative of anything, as I personally find her very undercosted, and that team wrecked Biollante as well.

One change I suggested for Biollante was for the Head Markers to have a clause stating, ďHead markers cannot be removed from this card in any way except by this special power.Ē It was too easy for 200pt Wiccan to have a 50% shot at removing 1/3+ of Biollanteís life per round. Ghidorahís markers donít preserve him as much as Biollanteís do her, and he is much more mobile than Biollante, which made it more difficult for Wiccan to use Reality Warper, but I still think it would be a worthy addition for Ghidorah.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Very cool how Ghidorah has an intimidating, maximum damage focused moveset. The Destructible Object interaction with the gravity beams is great representation.
I know that sometimes designs can be referred to as ďlunchboxĒ versions. After the gravity beams, to me, strangling opponents with his necks is his next most iconic move, so I was sad not seeing it here.
Lighting Wings is a great, useful power, but I was iffy on it at first, as that strikes me as such a Monsterverse themed power. And it made me wonder, would there be a point to doing a Monsterverse Ghidorah now? I know there was interest in doing the Monsterverse Kong with the Ax. Would monsters from that universe be called ďTitansĒ instead of Kaiju?
But the answer is, thereís always a way to do additional designs if we ever so chose, so Iím not worried about it. Monsterverse Ghidorah could resuse Lightning Wings, regrow heads, and have some sort of Alpha Predator thing. Who knows, not there yet, and Iím happy with this.

But because Lightning Wings first appeared in Mothra 3, I went back and watched the Ghidorah scenes, and this design reminds me a lot of how he is in that movie. Just a relentless, violent, dominating beast. And fast! He sprints in that movie! Mothra gets torn up.
Sometimes, especially in the older movies movies, Ghidorah left me with this impression that he was just a cool looking thing to beat up. But his appearance in Mothra 3, and this card, really deliver on what we want out of Ghidorah.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinderella
Hey Tornado! Here's my feedback on Ghidorah. Very scary piece, always been a fan of Ghidorah!

Quote:
Game 1: F4 vs. Ghidorah
Ghirodah felt really strong this game. His mobility, survivability, and damage output meant he could pick and choose his targets with ease, leading to my team being picked off quickly one by one. I could probably have placed Invisible Woman a bit better, but I think that would have only delayed things by a turn or two. The sheer amount of damage options he has means he can skirt around most special powers, which is a scary concept paired with being hard to lock down.

Game 2: Thunderbolts vs. Ghidorah
A little bit closer this time, but Ghidorah was still strong. His damage output is crazy and reminds me a lot of the Fen Hydra from Valhalla scape, which was a terrifying unit in that game. Didnít feel like I could do much in this game to stop him either, as he could just take the LEAs to hunt priority targets. Iím getting a similar feeling to the Biollante games I played, where you probably need a bunch of figures with similar stats to him to really take him on.

Game 3: Ghidorah Vs. Godzilla
Just a bunch of dice rolling, but Ghidorah taking some height was pretty key here. His Wing Lightning Bolts are really strong against Huge figures, and it really helped secure victory here. Having Ghidorah in my own hands, he feels like Fen Hydra on steroids, but also almost 10 times as much. He has so many ways to hurt you that it feels like no figure is safe against him.

Game 4: Ghidorah Vs. Surtur
About as close as you can get it. Surturís ability to shut him down really helped his survivability. Without it, Iím not sure he would of lasted nearly as long. Fun game, very cool to see one of the original 1000 pointers take Ghidorah on.

Game 5: Ghidorah vs. Anti-Biollante build She-Hulk, Wiccan, Zemo, D.Va, spells that never got used.
toyhandle was back to playing Ghidorah for this game. We wanted to give this a quick go because it was so effective against Biollante. Turns out, this build didnít even need Wiccan, as he didnít get his Reality Warper off. She-Hulk + D.Va was enough to take Ghidorah on. I think She-Hulk is just really good with the amount of things she brings to the table. Those two dishing out a load of damage, and then the Objection!, is enough to shut Ghidorah down fast.

Overall thoughts:
I think Ghidorah is really strong. Heís got a strong early game that eases off as you fight him. Itís really hard to stop him from picking off who he wants. Flying + 7 Move lets him go almost anywhere, size permitting, and itís worth it in the beginning for him to take LEAs if it means he can take out a hub or cheerleader.

Heís got a lot of options for offense, making him even harder to deal with as he can deal with different units accordingly. I like that Wing Lightning Bolts can deal with different armies, whilst not instantly deleting human sized targets. His special is very good both right out the gate when he canít engage, and late game when heís losing heads. Itís very hard to approach him, and no figure is safe against him.

This all said, heís surprisingly squishy, where She-Hulk and Silver Surfer proved this. In a 1v1, She-Hulk isnít bringing a whole lot, yet still did a lot to him. It should be noted that both of these figures had gained height on Ghidorah though, which definitely helped both of these fights. I could tell it was difficult for Ghidorah to approach, since She-Hulk could push forward, with D.Va out of range to use Defense Matrix, and Wiccan lurking to delete a head. Anything that can out do Ghidorahís damage output puts Ghidorah in a lot of trouble, which She-Hulk does naturally and with ease.

One thing toyhandle informed me about during testing is that Ghidorah has only ever lost one head. Perhaps upping his life and giving him one less marker could increase his survivability and damage output, though I can see what the aim of Three Headed Monster is. I think Ghidorah is probably fine as is, but heís very match up dependant, and I can see him falling into the same sort of categories as the Fen Hydra did as a really oppressive damage dealer that needs to be taken on with care, albeit so much harder to do here. He seems okay at 1000 if not a bit underpriced. I played him when toyhandle used Godzilla and Surtur, and he could definitely take them on, though I found it quite difficult to approach him in my first two games.

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The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
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