C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM NAME OF THE TEST UNIT King Ghidorah Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: King Ghidorah (1000) vs Superman, Super-Man, Steel, Emil Hamilton (Visor and Shrink Ray) (1000) Unit Summary Damage: 17 wounds dealt. Abilities: Lightning Bolts once to do 3 total Auto wounds, used Gravity Beams Twice.
Spoiler Alert!
General Flow:
R1: Ghidorah fails to scratch Kal in the first onslaught. Kenan shrinks the monster with a Shrink Ray, then Steel gets a single wound on the dragon, causing it to lose an OM.
R2: Ghidorah wins initiative, putting 4 wounds on Steel in the first turn (last ditch defense saved the day in the end). Kal puts 4 wounds on the monster and Steel ekes out 2 more, allowing for another OM removal. Ghidorah kills Steel and wounds the other two with Wing Lightning Bolts. No damage in 3rd turn.
R3: Could have been a kill turn 1 with Hamilton’s Countermeasure Ability, so I’ll put stats for that here. Ghidorah being the first Event Hero with a stay alive longer power (that I can think of) means there may need to be an update to Hamilton for this type of situation. He puts a few wounds on Supes, but the two Supers retaliate by getting him down to 1 life left, then taking the other head. Super-Man takes a wound on the next attack after Superman failed to finish the job.
R4: Ghidorah tries to go out with a bang, with a 6 skull roll hitting a single shield defense on Superman, killing him. All-Yang focus kills Ghidorah
General thoughts: He’s definitely susceptible to OM removal, but honestly most of the big 1000 point tanks probably are. Potentially need to tweak Hamilton, but still fun. Wasn’t sure on whether or not he could make other attacks after Gravity Beams with how power 1 is worded, if he can, he probably one the “play it out version”, as rerolling did let him get 1 wound in on Superman in the offending turn, which would have given a kill. Note that in that I completely skipped countermeasures as an ability so didn’t negate any powers.
Unit Summary:
R1 T1: Moves up
R1 T2: No damage done in 3 attacks.
R1 T3: Lost OM
R2 T1: 4 wounds on Steel across 3 attacks.
R2 T2: Wing Lightning Bolts kills Steel and puts one on Kenan and Kal
R2 T3: Lost OM
R3 T1: Dies./ Gravity Beams does 2 to Superman, but none to Super-Man
R3 T2: Puts 2 on Super-Man
R3 T3: No damage dealt
R4 T1: Kills Superman (no potential bonus attacks)
R4 T2: Puts one on Super-Man.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?Early win: Superman Family with Superman with 1 wound, Super-Man with 1 wound, Emil Hamilton unwounded.
Late version: Superman Family with Super-Man 1 life remaining, Hamilton unwounded.
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: King Ghidorah (1000) vs Captain Marvels (Shazamily) (1000) Unit Summary Damage: 20 wounds dealt Abilities: Used Lightning twice. Never needed Gravity Beam.
Spoiler Alert!
General Flow:
R1: CM Jr is nearly shredded on turn 2. Billy puts 3 on Ghidorah. Ghidorah kills CMJr with Lightning Bolts and puts 1 on Billy. Billy gets 1 on Ghidorah.
R2: Ghidorah gets Billy down to 1 life. Mary puts 1 on Ghidorah. Lightning Bolts kills Billy and puts 1 on Mary. Ghidorah puts 3 more on Mary.
R3: Mary knocks off a head with a 4 wound hit after healing. Ghidorah still kills Mary in 1 of his two attacks.
General thoughts: Trying just a straight up slug fest here, especially with some contenders that can also heal to see him with no tricksiness against him. Yeah, as I kinda thought, straight up brawl makes him real tough to fight without some extras. Those 3 attacks add up fast with no way to curb it until you’ve dealt a good deal of damage. The Marvels also do a bit better against actual D20s, so not terribly surprised by how it played out. May have shifted a tad with an initiative win in the second round, but Freddy dropping that fast was rough.
Unit Summary:
R1 T1: Moves up
R1 T2: Puts 5 on CMJr
R1 T3: Lightning bolts puts 1 on Billy and kills CMJr
R2 T1: Puts 5 on Billy.
R2 T2: Lightning bolts kills Billy and puts 1 on Mary.
R2 T3: 3 wounds on Mary.
R3 T1: Kills Mary
Who won and how many wounds did they have?Ghidorah wins. 8 wounds, 1 head marker remained.
Army Test
Map: Conflict Chernobyl
Units: Ghidorah (1000) vs Superman Family (Kal, Kara, Kon) (1000) Unit Summary Damage: 14 Damage dealt Abilities: Used Gravity each round, Lightning Bolts in the second.
Spoiler Alert!
General Flow:
R1: Ghidorah puts 2 on Kal with Gravity Beam. Kara and Kal get 3 wounds on the monster, who puts 4 on Kal who had some poor rolls. Kal puts 2 more on Ghidorah.
R2: Super Family initiative, 3 wounds from Kal put on Ghidorah. Kara gets one on it. Gravity Beams only gets 1 on Kal. Kara gets Ghidorah to 1 life remaining. Lightning Bolts hits everyone for 1, which would kill Kal, but Krypton’s resolve buys them to the end of the round. Kal takes out the other head with his final turn.
R3: 3 wounds on Kara with Gravity Beam. She freezes and shatters the invader.
General thoughts: Yeah, he still feels tough to appropriately gauge. Strong bonders feel like they can take him down relatively smoothly, but he has a few tricks to keep the wounds coming, but nothing to really throw opponents off.
Unit Summary:
R1 T1: Moves up.
R1 T2: 2 on Kal with Gravity Beam.
R1 T3: 4 on Kal with Normal attacks.
R2 T1: 1 on Kal, 0 on Kon with Gravity Beam
R2 T2: 1 on each with Lightning Bolts.
R2 T3: 1 on Kon.
R4 T1: 3 on Kara with Gravity Beam.
Who won and how many wounds did they have?Superman family wins. Superboy with 2 wounds, Supergirl with 4 wounds.
General Thoughts: He’s quite the damage dealer. I do think a lot of the stats are in a nice sweet spot. Only things I’d consider as potential changes could be letting him lose a head earlier (but this may just be from me having 2 times where he was at 1 life before losing heads), or allowing normal attacks after gravity beams. Not totally solid on the second one, as that might be a bit much on offensive potential early on.
Thanks!
Why would losing a head earlier help him?
I also had multiple games where he was at 1 Life.
I tried Gravity Beams on top of the normal attacks and it was brutal.
Maybe allow it once per game?
Only other tweak would be more Life.
My thought was letting him lose a head to ignore like a big hit. I think at least once he took like, 5 wounds in a single hit. Potentially useful to sacrifice a head to ignore, but not sure.
Yeah I kinda figured it would probably feel more brutal. My worry with more like if it just takes longer to start curbing the multi attack which is harsher for some army styles.
My thought was letting him lose a head to ignore like a big hit. I think at least once he took like, 5 wounds in a single hit. Potentially useful to sacrifice a head to ignore, but not sure.
Yeah I kinda figured it would probably feel more brutal. My worry with more like if it just takes longer to start curbing the multi attack which is harsher for some army styles.
Actually I tried Winged Lightning Bolts with the normal attacks.
Also tried 7 Attack. Both felt a little too powerful.
How about letting WLB inflict 2 wounds on non-Huge figures?
But yeah, that's why I'm struggling with it thematically. It feels like you, the player, are forcing Ghidorah to do something he wouldn't want to do as a character, which I feel like we normally try to avoid.
THREE HEADED MONSTER
Start the game with two gold Head Markers on this card. King Ghidorah may attack with his normal attack an additional time for each Head Marker on this card. If Ghidorah would be destroyed, or receives 3 or more wounds at once for the first time in a game, instead remove a Head Marker to ignore any wounds inflicted.
Something like this could work thematically. No choice involved.
Army Test Map: Dark Dimension Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Mr. Fantastic (235), Invisible Woman (215), Silver Surfer (400), Iceman (150) (1000)
Results:
*Here I had misinterpreted the Roll of 5 for the SA as separate rolls instead of one for all, and rolled a second time for Iceman. He would have blocked the initial roll of 5, which only yielded 1 skull. This means he would not have died from Lightning wings in R1T3. This was the only instance of this mistake though.
I don’t think Iceman’s extra wound made too much of a difference in terms of game outcome. Ghidorah zoomed in and struck like lightning, dealing too many huge blows for the F4 to recover. Losing Sue R1T2 meant picking off the remaining members was easy work for Ghidorah, with his variety of offensive options.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!
Game Summary:
Initiative: Toy
*R1T1(Player): Ghidorah flies forward, Special Attacks Surfer, who blocks, and uses Cosmic Speed, Invisible Woman blocks, and Iceman takes a wound
R1T1(Player): 4, Surfer grabs height, and attacks for a wound.
R1T2(Player): Ghidorah takes a LEA wound, engages IW and Iceman, 4 wounds with first attack, destroys her in second, and third puts 2 wounds on Iceman.
R1T2(Player): 14, Surfer grabs height, removes the X, attacks for 2 wounds. Iceman puts 1 wound, Ghidorah blocks Mr. F
R1T3(Player): Ghidorah uses lightning wings, 4 skulls, destroying Iceman, wounding Surfer, Mr. F, and a Rock, which only wounds Ghidorah
R1T3(Player): Surfer and Mr. F deal 1 wound each
Initiative: Skin
R2T1(Player): Surfer would deal 4 wounds, but Ghidrah removes a head marker.
R2T1(Player): Ghidorah grabs equal height, fails to wound Surfer with Special
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah blocks
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah deals 2 wounds to Surfer, and surfer moves out of range.
R2T3(Player): Ghidorah blocks
R2T3(Player): Ghidorah destroys Surfer, who whiffed on 3 skulls
No lava damage to Ghidorah
Initiative: Toy
R3T1(Player): Ghidorah destroys Reed
Who won?
Ghidorah with 8 wounds and 1 Head marker
Army Test Map: Conflict Cherobyl Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Songbird (180), Atlas (270), Techno (150), Meteorite (210), Citizen V (190) (1000)
Results:
Ghidorah was able to move from high value target to high value target, destroying one after another in rapid succession until there were only progressively weaker opponents.
Atlas did most of the work for his team, with a decent last stand from V.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!
Game Summary:
Initiative: Skin
R1T1(Player): Atlas moves up
R1T1(Player): Ghidorah moves up
R1T2(Player): Techno chooses to double attack and add to his move. Songbird moves up, Techno inflicts 1 wound
R1T2(Player): Ghidorah attacks Songbird with special, which destroys a bush, putting 1 wound on Songbird. She and Atlas block.
R1T3(Player): OM3 on Meteorite, X on V, Ghidorah blocks Atlas and Meteorite
R1T3(Player): Ghidorah destroys Meteorite in 3 attacks.
Initiative: Toy
R2T1(Player): Ghidorah inflicts 1 wound on V in 3 attacks.
R2T1(Player): OM1 on Atlas, X on V, V inflicts 3 wounds on Ghidorah in 5 attacks of Swordplay, Songbird is blocked.
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah inflicts 0 wounds on Songbird in 3 attacks.
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah blocks Songbird and Atlas
R2T3(Player): Ghidorah destroys Songbird in 2 attacks, and V in third.
R2T3(Player): Atlas inflicts 1 wound on Ghidorah
Initiative: Toy
R3T1(Player): Ghidorah inflicts 2 wounds in 3 attacks on Atlas
R3T1(Player): Atlas inflicts 3 wounds
R3T2(Player): Ghidorah inflicts 2 wounds on Atlas, and takes 1 wound from Atlas
R3T2(Player): Atlas would destroy Ghidorah, but a Head marker is shed.
R3T3(Player): Lightning Wings destroys Atlas, wounds Techno, and a palm, which does not wound Techno
R3T3(Player): OM3 Atlas
Initiative: Toy
R4T1(Player): Ghidorah inflicts 2 wounds on Techno with second attack.
R4T1(Player): Ghidorah blocks Techno
R4T2(Player): Lightning wings destroys Techno
Who won? Ghidorah with 9 wounds and 1 head marker.
Army Test Map: City Park Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Godzilla (1000)
Results:
Godzilla had supremely low attack rolls, and weak or nonexistent defense (R1T1 took 5 wounds in 1 attack and 3 whiffs in a row R2T1 for 7 wounds). Ghidorah grabbed height early, and had massive attacks, which made this the most blowout win of any of the games.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!
Game Summary:
Initiative: Skin
R1T1(Player): Ghidorah grabs height
R1T1(Player): Godzilla adds a marker, moves up, destroying a tree.
R1T2(Player): Godzilla takes 5 wounds from 6 skulls in Ghidorah’s special.
R1T2(Player): Godzilla adds a marker. and puts 1 wound on Ghidorah.
R1T3(Player): Ghidorah puts 4 wounds on Godzilla in 3 attacks.
R1T3(Player): Godzilla adds a marker puts 1 wound n Ghidorah.
Initiative: Skin
R2T1(Player): Godzilla whiffs on all 3 defense rolls, and is down to last 4 life.
R2T1(Player): Godzilla deals 4 wounds to Ghidorah
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah destroys Godzilla.
Who won?
Ghidorah with 6 wounds and both head markers
Army Test
Map: Martian War Zone
Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Surtur (1000)
Results:
Closest match of the game, because Surtur had Negated Ghidorah for 3 of 8 of Ghidorah’s turns. Surtur had almost half his life zapped R1T2 and struggled to gain height on Ghidorah, but was almost able to pull through, with this match ending with Ghidorah on his very last life.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!
Game Summary:
Initiative: Skin
R1T1(Player): 1 Wound from Special on Surtur
R1T1(Player): Ghidorah blocks, and Twilight Sword fails.
R1T2(Player): Ghidorah rolls 6 skulls against 1 shield in first attack, and then deals another wound for a total of 6 wounds
R1T2(Player): Surtur deals 4 wounds and negates Ghidorah
R1T3(Player): 1 Skull against 1 shield, no wounds on Surtur.
R1T3(Player): Surtur grabs height, 2 skulls on 9 dice, blocked.
Ghidorah takes a wound from Lava and Intense heat.
Initiative: Skin
R2T1(Player): Ghidorah takes no LEA, and inflicts 1 wound on Surtur
R2T1(Player): Surtur inflicts 2 wounds, and Negates Ghidorah
R2T2(Player): Surtur takes 2 wounds
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah takes 3 wounds
R2T3(Player): Surtur takes a wound
R2T3(Player): No wounds on Ghidorah
No wounds on Ghidorah from Molten Field. Marker returns to Surtur
Ghidorah takes no wounds from intense heat, but a rock destroyed from intonse heat would destroy Ghidorah, but he sheds a marker
Initiative: Skin
R3T1(Player): Surtur takes 1 wound in 2 attacks
R3T1(Player): Surtur takes Ghidorah’s last head
R3T2(Player): Lightning wings destroys Surtur
Who won?
Ghidorah with 1 life and no head markers.
Army Test Map: Ravaged Road Units:
King Ghidorah (1000)
Baron Zemo, Wiccan, D.Va, She-Hulk (A), Lightning Bolt x1, Healing Energy x1 1000pts Results:
One final test against the army that was destroying Biollante in Skinderella and my tests for her. And the team did even better than they did against Biollante, with Ghidorah only dealing out a total of 6 wounds. Wiccan failed to take off any Head Markers off with Reality Warper, but it didn’t matter, as She-Hulk took Ghidorah to 11 wounds, Objected my next turn, and the next two heads came off quickly after that.
Looking back, possibly could have been a closer turnout if I had focused on She-Hulk while Ghidorah still had three heads.
Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!
Game Summary:
Initiative: Toy
R1T1(Player): Ghidorah moves out
R1T1(Player): D.Va, She-Hulk, carrying Wiccan move out
R1T2(Player): 5 skulls with Lightning Wings wounds D.Va, She- Hulk, Wiccan, a Great Evergreen, and the Short Ruin
R1T2(Player): Micro Missiles puts 1 wound on Ghidorah. She-Hulk Sensational Smashes for 1 wound, and attacks for 3 wounds
R1T3(Player): Ghidorah takes no LEA from She-Hulk, and special attacks Zemo for 1 wound
R1T3(Player): Wiccan fails to wound, or remove a marker. She Hulk’s Sensational Smash puts a wound on Ghidorah
Initiative: Skin
R2T1(Player): Ghidorah Blocks, and Reality Warp rolls a 4. She hulk puts 5 wounds on Ghidorah.
R2T1(Player): Objection
R2T2(Player): Micro Missiles removes a Head Marker. She-hulk removes last Head Marker.
R2T2(Player): Ghidorah puts 1 wound on She-Hulk
R2T3(Player): OM3 She-Hulk, for no wounds on Ghidorah
R2T3(Player): No wounds on She-Hulk
Who won?
She Hulk with 3 wounds, 1 wound on Zemo, Wiccan, and D.Va each
THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Cost and Draftability are pretty much non issues for this character in this game, as he’s meant to be a solo 1000pt character.
As far as balance goes, I honestly felt he’d be fine without a second head marker. Which is fitting, as I don’t think he’s ever lost more than 1 head in a movie. I suppose in an army of several heavy hitters, he may actually need/require that extra head, but he was dominating so much of the time, if there were no second head marker, Games 1 and 2 would have been close wins, game 3 would be a closer win (still big), and Game 4 would be a close loss instead of a close win. Although, if I didn’t have the second head marker, I might not have the confidence to play so aggressively. But now with the knowledge of how useful just 1 marker is, I would probably play him the same with just 1.
He kind of reminds me of Guy Gardner, as a massive heavy hitter that can burn out quickly.
I don’t really see the loss against She-Hulk as indicative of anything, as I personally find her very undercosted, and that team wrecked Biollante as well.
One change I suggested for Biollante was for the Head Markers to have a clause stating, “Head markers cannot be removed from this card in any way except by this special power.” It was too easy for 200pt Wiccan to have a 50% shot at removing 1/3+ of Biollante’s life per round. Ghidorah’s markers don’t preserve him as much as Biollante’s do her, and he is much more mobile than Biollante, which made it more difficult for Wiccan to use Reality Warper, but I still think it would be a worthy addition for Ghidorah.
GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Very cool how Ghidorah has an intimidating, maximum damage focused moveset. The Destructible Object interaction with the gravity beams is great representation.
I know that sometimes designs can be referred to as “lunchbox” versions. After the gravity beams, to me, strangling opponents with his necks is his next most iconic move, so I was sad not seeing it here.
Lighting Wings is a great, useful power, but I was iffy on it at first, as that strikes me as such a Monsterverse themed power. And it made me wonder, would there be a point to doing a Monsterverse Ghidorah now? I know there was interest in doing the Monsterverse Kong with the Ax. Would monsters from that universe be called “Titans” instead of Kaiju?
But the answer is, there’s always a way to do additional designs if we ever so chose, so I’m not worried about it. Monsterverse Ghidorah could resuse Lightning Wings, regrow heads, and have some sort of Alpha Predator thing. Who knows, not there yet, and I’m happy with this.
But because Lightning Wings first appeared in Mothra 3, I went back and watched the Ghidorah scenes, and this design reminds me a lot of how he is in that movie. Just a relentless, violent, dominating beast. And fast! He sprints in that movie! Mothra gets torn up.
Sometimes, especially in the older movies movies, Ghidorah left me with this impression that he was just a cool looking thing to beat up. But his appearance in Mothra 3, and this card, really deliver on what we want out of Ghidorah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skinderella
Hey Tornado! Here's my feedback on Ghidorah. Very scary piece, always been a fan of Ghidorah!
Quote:
Game 1: F4 vs. Ghidorah
Ghirodah felt really strong this game. His mobility, survivability, and damage output meant he could pick and choose his targets with ease, leading to my team being picked off quickly one by one. I could probably have placed Invisible Woman a bit better, but I think that would have only delayed things by a turn or two. The sheer amount of damage options he has means he can skirt around most special powers, which is a scary concept paired with being hard to lock down.
Game 2: Thunderbolts vs. Ghidorah
A little bit closer this time, but Ghidorah was still strong. His damage output is crazy and reminds me a lot of the Fen Hydra from Valhalla scape, which was a terrifying unit in that game. Didn’t feel like I could do much in this game to stop him either, as he could just take the LEAs to hunt priority targets. I’m getting a similar feeling to the Biollante games I played, where you probably need a bunch of figures with similar stats to him to really take him on.
Game 3: Ghidorah Vs. Godzilla
Just a bunch of dice rolling, but Ghidorah taking some height was pretty key here. His Wing Lightning Bolts are really strong against Huge figures, and it really helped secure victory here. Having Ghidorah in my own hands, he feels like Fen Hydra on steroids, but also almost 10 times as much. He has so many ways to hurt you that it feels like no figure is safe against him.
Game 4: Ghidorah Vs. Surtur
About as close as you can get it. Surtur’s ability to shut him down really helped his survivability. Without it, I’m not sure he would of lasted nearly as long. Fun game, very cool to see one of the original 1000 pointers take Ghidorah on.
Game 5: Ghidorah vs. Anti-Biollante build She-Hulk, Wiccan, Zemo, D.Va, spells that never got used.
toyhandle was back to playing Ghidorah for this game. We wanted to give this a quick go because it was so effective against Biollante. Turns out, this build didn’t even need Wiccan, as he didn’t get his Reality Warper off. She-Hulk + D.Va was enough to take Ghidorah on. I think She-Hulk is just really good with the amount of things she brings to the table. Those two dishing out a load of damage, and then the Objection!, is enough to shut Ghidorah down fast.
Overall thoughts:
I think Ghidorah is really strong. He’s got a strong early game that eases off as you fight him. It’s really hard to stop him from picking off who he wants. Flying + 7 Move lets him go almost anywhere, size permitting, and it’s worth it in the beginning for him to take LEAs if it means he can take out a hub or cheerleader.
He’s got a lot of options for offense, making him even harder to deal with as he can deal with different units accordingly. I like that Wing Lightning Bolts can deal with different armies, whilst not instantly deleting human sized targets. His special is very good both right out the gate when he can’t engage, and late game when he’s losing heads. It’s very hard to approach him, and no figure is safe against him.
This all said, he’s surprisingly squishy, where She-Hulk and Silver Surfer proved this. In a 1v1, She-Hulk isn’t bringing a whole lot, yet still did a lot to him. It should be noted that both of these figures had gained height on Ghidorah though, which definitely helped both of these fights. I could tell it was difficult for Ghidorah to approach, since She-Hulk could push forward, with D.Va out of range to use Defense Matrix, and Wiccan lurking to delete a head. Anything that can out do Ghidorah’s damage output puts Ghidorah in a lot of trouble, which She-Hulk does naturally and with ease.
One thing toyhandle informed me about during testing is that Ghidorah has only ever lost one head. Perhaps upping his life and giving him one less marker could increase his survivability and damage output, though I can see what the aim of Three Headed Monster is. I think Ghidorah is probably fine as is, but he’s very match up dependant, and I can see him falling into the same sort of categories as the Fen Hydra did as a really oppressive damage dealer that needs to be taken on with care, albeit so much harder to do here. He seems okay at 1000 if not a bit underpriced. I played him when toyhandle used Godzilla and Surtur, and he could definitely take them on, though I found it quite difficult to approach him in my first two games.
A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow - Eslo Rudkey
March 20th, 2022, 08:00 PM
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