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  #13  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:30 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

n/a

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  #14  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:31 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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1. The Big Bang theory is a theory on how the universe began in one giant explosive moment.

2. The the theory of evolution is a theory on how life went from simple organisms to more complex organisms.

One does not equal the other. Which do you want to discuss? Evolution or the Big Bang theory?

Bannister
If it is a theory, why do they talk about it like its a fact? And, I believe that evolution does tie into the Big Bang. They say that the Big Bang happened, and then after millions of years, the earth (which was created by the Big Bang) formed life.
Theory has two very different meanings; conflating these meanings is a popular pastime of those on the side of irrationality. Gravity is a theory. Are you happy to talk about gravity as if it is a fact? It's merely semantics---don't let it distract you from the important questions.

Evolution is a theory (which, as noted, is not to do with the big bang or even the origin of life---it talks about how life has developed since its inception). It is also as much a fact as gravity is. What have you been reading? I'd recommend some of Stephen Jay Gould's collections of essays as excellent material for laymen (as I am): understandable without dumbing down.
That's where I disagree with your reasoning. We are all happy to talk about gravity as a fact because it has been proven to be a fact. The Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory have not been proven as fact.
In what sense has gravity been "proven to be a fact"? In what sense has evolution not been so proved?
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  #15  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:32 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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1. See definition of scientific theory.

2. Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Bannister

PS. I have so been wanting to use that quote.
Are you absolutely sure?
Yes, I am absolutely sure that only a sith deals in absolutes.

Bannister

PS. Don't try to use your jedi mind tricks on me boy.

That can only mean one thing. And I don't know what it is.
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  #16  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:33 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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1. The Big Bang theory is a theory on how the universe began in one giant explosive moment.

2. The the theory of evolution is a theory on how life went from simple organisms to more complex organisms.

One does not equal the other. Which do you want to discuss? Evolution or the Big Bang theory?

Bannister
If it is a theory, why do they talk about it like its a fact? And, I believe that evolution does tie into the Big Bang. They say that the Big Bang happened, and then after millions of years, the earth (which was created by the Big Bang) formed life.
Theory has two very different meanings; conflating these meanings is a popular pastime of those on the side of irrationality. Gravity is a theory. Are you happy to talk about gravity as if it is a fact? It's merely semantics---don't let it distract you from the important questions.

Evolution is a theory (which, as noted, is not to do with the big bang or even the origin of life---it talks about how life has developed since its inception). It is also as much a fact as gravity is. What have you been reading? I'd recommend some of Stephen Jay Gould's collections of essays as excellent material for laymen (as I am): understandable without dumbing down.
That's where I disagree with your reasoning. We are all happy to talk about gravity as a fact because it has been proven to be a fact. The Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang Theory have not been proven as fact.
In what sense has gravity been "proven to be a fact"? In what sense has evolution not been so proved?
Well, we all know that gravity is in existence, and actually happens. Give an example of Evolution in action.


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  #17  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:45 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

No, we all know that when we drop something it falls down. We also all know that scientists call this gravity.

Bannister

That can only mean one thing. And I don't know what it is.
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  #18  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:46 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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In what sense has gravity been "proven to be a fact"? In what sense has evolution not been so proved?
Well, we all know that gravity is in existence, and actually happens. Give an example of Evolution in action.
I'm not sure I buy your notion of "proven". How do we know the Earth goes round the sun and not vice versa? As for examples of evolution, they abound. Look at anything alive and you've found one.
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  #19  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:48 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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Well, we all know that gravity is in existence, and actually happens. Give an example of Evolution in action.
The various strains of the influenza Virus (the Flu). These are some of the fastest mutating life forms on the planet. The mutate, or evolve, to survive in an environment that is extremely hostile to them. That is why every year, a modified Flu vaccine has to be developed and it only works on certain strains.
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  #20  
Old November 26th, 2008, 01:59 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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In what sense has gravity been "proven to be a fact"? In what sense has evolution not been so proved?
Well, we all know that gravity is in existence, and actually happens. Give an example of Evolution in action.
I'm not sure I buy your notion of "proven". How do we know the Earth goes round the sun and not vice versa? As for examples of evolution, they abound. Look at anything alive and you've found one.
Ok, I'll look at all of the beautiful creatures around me. For example, I'll look at the species of jellyfish, one of the most "primitive of creatures" that has a complicated defense mechanism. When a predator gets close to it, the jellyfish turns off all of the lights in its bell-shaped body and turns on the lights at the ends of its tentacles. The jellyfish then stretches its body as far as possible from the tentacles. When the foe gets close enough, the jellyfish turns off all of its lights, and zips away as fast as it can. This incredibly complex creature even has a Plan B. If the predator isn't fooled, and continues the pursuit, the jellyfish will turn on both the blue lights in its body, and the white lights in its tentacles. When the predator gets too close, the jellyfish will turn off the lights in its body, detach the still-glowing tentacles, and scoot away again. The tentacles will twist and turn in the water, causing an impressive distraction.
Your reasoning doesn't work for one side or the other. While you say to look around, and you will see examples of Evolution, Creationists(like myself) will say to look around to see examples of design. That statement is one of the poorest arguments that one could make in a debate such as this. If I get neg repped into oblivion for that last sentence, well, I have to state my beliefs.


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  #21  
Old November 26th, 2008, 02:06 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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Ok, I'll look at all of the beautiful creatures around me. For example, I'll look at the species of jellyfish, one of the most "primitive of creatures" that has a complicated defense mechanism. When a predator gets close to it, the jellyfish turns off all of the lights in its bell-shaped body and turns on the lights at the ends of its tentacles. The jellyfish then stretches its body as far as possible from the tentacles. When the foe gets close enough, the jellyfish turns off all of its lights, and zips away as fast as it can. This incredibly complex creature even has a Plan B. If the predator isn't fooled, and continues the pursuit, the jellyfish will turn on both the blue lights in its body, and the white lights in its tentacles. When the predator gets too close, the jellyfish will turn off the lights in its body, detach the still-glowing tentacles, and scoot away again. The tentacles will twist and turn in the water, causing an impressive distraction.
Your reasoning doesn't work for one side or the other. While you say to look around, and you will see examples of Evolution, Creationists(like myself) will say to look around to see examples of design. That statement is one of the poorest arguments that one could make in a debate such as this. If I get neg repped into oblivion for that last sentence, well, I have to state my beliefs.
You asked for an example, not a proof. I don't claim that looking at something is a proof (though your "proof" of the theory of gravity suggests that you do).

To believe in design (as it is usually interpreted) requires ignoring all of the evidence. This is not to say that evolution is incompatible with the existence of a god, but if there is a god then he/she/it "creates" via evolution, not design. Many religious people have no problem reconciling these viewpoints.
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  #22  
Old November 26th, 2008, 02:10 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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Ok, I'll look at all of the beautiful creatures around me. For example, I'll look at the species of jellyfish, one of the most "primitive of creatures" that has a complicated defense mechanism. When a predator gets close to it, the jellyfish turns off all of the lights in its bell-shaped body and turns on the lights at the ends of its tentacles. The jellyfish then stretches its body as far as possible from the tentacles. When the foe gets close enough, the jellyfish turns off all of its lights, and zips away as fast as it can. This incredibly complex creature even has a Plan B. If the predator isn't fooled, and continues the pursuit, the jellyfish will turn on both the blue lights in its body, and the white lights in its tentacles. When the predator gets too close, the jellyfish will turn off the lights in its body, detach the still-glowing tentacles, and scoot away again. The tentacles will twist and turn in the water, causing an impressive distraction.
Your reasoning doesn't work for one side or the other. While you say to look around, and you will see examples of Evolution, Creationists(like myself) will say to look around to see examples of design. That statement is one of the poorest arguments that one could make in a debate such as this. If I get neg repped into oblivion for that last sentence, well, I have to state my beliefs.
You asked for an example, not a proof. I don't claim that looking at something is a proof (though your "proof" of the theory of gravity suggests that you do).

To believe in design (as it is usually interpreted) requires ignoring all of the evidence. This is not to say that evolution is incompatible with the existence of a god, but if there is a god then he/she/it "creates" via evolution, not design. Many religious people have no problem reconciling these viewpoints.
! Would you please explain your reasoning for the bolded section?


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  #23  
Old November 26th, 2008, 02:13 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

Please explain why you think the bolded section is worthy of a WFT?

Bannister

That can only mean one thing. And I don't know what it is.
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  #24  
Old November 26th, 2008, 02:16 PM
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Re: Questions About Evolution

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To believe in design (as it is usually interpreted) requires ignoring all of the evidence. This is not to say that evolution is incompatible with the existence of a god, but if there is a god then he/she/it "creates" via evolution, not design. Many religious people have no problem reconciling these viewpoints.
! Would you please explain your reasoning for the bolded section?
I was trying to forestall the false identification of evolution with atheism (I was guessing that was where the conversation was heading given your citing of creationism, apologies if that is not the case.)

Believing that God (I'll use the capital as I assume we're talking about the Christian version) created all species in their current form in a single event called Creation and designed each species optimally goes against all of the evidence. Believing that God sparked life into being and let it develop via natural selection is consistent with the evidence. (It's not supported by the evidence, but it is consistent.)
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