Public Design Workshop

[MrNobody]

So here's what I'm getting off of Wikipedia as the complete JL Dark membership. Bolded ones already have designs, and I guessed at classes for some of the others.

Zatanna - Magician
Constantine - Magician?
Andrew Bennett (I, Vampire) -
Black Orchid -
Doctor Mist -
Frankenstein - Creature
Deadman - Acrobat/Vagabond?
Madame Xanadu - Magician?
Mindwarp -
Nightmare Nurse -
Pandora -
Phantom Stranger -
Amethyst - Warrior?
Shade The Changing Man - Changing Man/Vagabond?
Swamp Thing - Scientist
Timothy Hunter -
Zauriel - Guardian
Detective Chimp - Investigator?
Man-Bat - Creature
Wonder Woman - Champion, Warrior

Looking at that, I think you could make a JL-style class based synergy work. Obviously you can't fit every character on that list in there, but same is true for the other JL designs. I think Vagabond could possibly work as a description for both Shade and Deadman, combining them into one class. So maybe Constantine's team power could reference Magicians, Creatures, Vagabonds, and one other class? Then a potential JLD Diana could reference Magicians, Creatures, Investigators, and Warriors? That would get a vast swathe of the characters on the list under one of those umbrellas.

I'm really interested in taking on Shade, for what it's worth.

[Arkham]

Is there a common link beyond classes that could be made to tie them together? Magician is a pretty tight knit class, but something like Creature or Scientist being included feels like it's capturing only a couple people out of a pretty large set.

Much like the Justice League synergy tried to be unique in its approach, which is something I tried doing for the Slashers, I feel Justice League Dark could benefit from trying something unique of its own.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

So here's what I'm getting off of Wikipedia as the complete JL Dark membership. Bolded ones already have designs, and I guessed at classes for some of the others.

Zatanna - Magician
Constantine - Magician?
Andrew Bennett (I, Vampire) -
Black Orchid -
Doctor Mist -
Frankenstein - Creature
Deadman - Acrobat/Vagabond?
Madame Xanadu - Magician?
Mindwarp -
Nightmare Nurse -
Pandora -
Phantom Stranger -
Amethyst - Warrior?
Shade The Changing Man - Changing Man/Vagabond?
Swamp Thing - Scientist
Timothy Hunter -
Zauriel - Guardian
Detective Chimp - Investigator?
Man-Bat - Creature
Wonder Woman - Champion, Warrior

Looking at that, I think you could make a JL-style class based synergy work. Obviously you can't fit every character on that list in there, but same is true for the other JL designs. I think Vagabond could possibly work as a description for both Shade and Deadman, combining them into one class. So maybe Constantine's team power could reference Magicians, Creatures, Vagabonds, and one other class? Then a potential JLD Diana could reference Magicians, Creatures, Investigators, and Warriors? That would get a vast swathe of the characters on the list under one of those umbrellas.

I'm really interested in taking on Shade, for what it's worth.

Just for the record, I would prioritise
1. Wonder Woman III, potential Zatanna II, potential Swamp Thing II, Detective Chimp, potential Man-Bat II (his current incarnation may be different enough to justify it), Constantine, Deadman - this is the current line-up
2. Black Orchid, Madame Xanadu, Nightmare Nurse- they were main staples of the old line-up, but aren't in the current series properly
3. Everyone else, who I don't remember exactly what they did or how long they were there- I have a feeling Shade killed himself or something early on, but I may be mixing it up with something else

[Ronin]

I think Creature would still work even though it's a broad set of figures - most of the Creatures are still pretty good fits.

Scientist would be a weird inclusion, though. Doesn't feel like a largely thematic set, and they'd probably have a disproportionate presence in the faction since they'd be a super-cheap source of markers.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Is there a common link beyond classes that could be made to tie them together? Magician is a pretty tight knit class, but something like Creature or Scientist being included feels like it's capturing only a couple people out of a pretty large set.

Much like the Justice League synergy tried to be uniquer in its approach, which is something I tried doing for the Slashers, I feel Justice League Dark could benefit from trying something unique of its own.

Personally, I would perhaps suggest implementing the Justice League marker mechanic on a new Wonder Woman III, where her markers are genned by Magicians, Creatures, Scientists, and Investigators- this would allow her to be a core of a JL Dark team, and would allow the JL Dark characters to work as part of a larger JL build

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I think Creature would still work even though it's a broad set of figures - most of the Creatures are still pretty good fits.

Scientist would be a weird inclusion, though. Doesn't feel like a largely thematic set, and they'd probably have a disproportionate presence in the faction since they'd be a super-cheap source of markers.

The only two "scientist" characters in the JLD are Man-Bat and Swamp Thing- Man-Bat is currently a Creature anyway, so if a Swamp Thing II with the class of Creature can be introduced, then that would solve that issue

[Ronin]

Isn't "Wonder Woman as JLD leader" a totally new dynamic, with a number of issues you could count on your fingers? I definitely wouldn't emphasize her as the lynchpin or her version of the team - that's a fraction of the JLD stuff.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Isn't "Wonder Woman as JLD leader" a totally new dynamic, with a number of issues you could count on your fingers? I definitely wouldn't emphasize her as the lynchpin or her version of the team - that's a fraction of the JLD stuff.

The JLD was a pretty loose faction as all things go in the OG run- I'd make the current team a priority personally just because they're more cohesive and actually tie into the main Justice League as a sort of magical sub-division (as opposed to the original JLD where it was a bunch of magic characters with no actual JL affiliation)

Only three characters in the current JL weren't in the original (Wonder Woman, Detective Chimp and Man-Bat), and Man-Bat's Creature status makes him viable for inclusion under the current proposal anyway- given everyone else is getting an inclusion, I think leaving out Diana and Bobo would seem weird.

I can't think of a better leader for a JLD team than Diana- maybe Zatanna, but like I said it was always a pretty loose team iirc.

It's hard to characterise it as just "a fraction" of JLD work because there's very little JLD work to begin with (it being a New 52 creation), and before the current run the first JLD book had ended at least three years ago

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Arkham

Is there a common link beyond classes that could be made to tie them together? Magician is a pretty tight knit class, but something like Creature or Scientist being included feels like it's capturing only a couple people out of a pretty large set.

Much like the Justice League synergy tried to be uniquer in its approach, which is something I tried doing for the Slashers, I feel Justice League Dark could benefit from trying something unique of its own.

To me, what would be coolest would be an echo of the JL mechanics, but with a twist. I just don't know how you'd do that. Sorting them by race or personality looks like it gives just as many disparate groups. (Although there are a lot of Undead.) But that's not as important as figuring out a way to get as many of the main members to work together as possible.

Originally Posted by ALEXAN2507

Just for the record, I would prioritise
1. Wonder Woman III, potential Zatanna II, potential Swamp Thing II, Detective Chimp, potential Man-Bat II (his current incarnation may be different enough to justify it), Constantine, Deadman - this is the current line-up
2. Black Orchid, Madame Xanadu, Nightmare Nurse- they were main staples of the old line-up, but aren't in the current series properly
3. Everyone else, who I don't remember exactly what they did or how long they were there- I have a feeling Shade killed himself or something early on, but I may be mixing it up with something else

Shade honestly is just a character I like a lot outside of this whole thing. Now that he's been brought up he's something I'm excited to design, JLD or not, but it would be cool if he could fit into the faction.

Nightmare Nurse is a character I've never heard of, looks like she's a demon. Speaking of Demons, has Etrigan really never been on this team? I remember he was in the movie.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

To me, what would be coolest would be an echo of the JL mechanics, but with a twist. I just don't know how you'd do that. Sorting them by race or personality looks like it gives just as many disparate groups. (Although there are a lot of Undead.) But that's not as important as figuring out a way to get as many of the main members to work together as possible.

Shade honestly is just a character I like a lot outside of this whole thing. Now that he's been brought up he's something I'm excited to design, JLD or not, but it would be cool if he could fit into the faction.

Nightmare Nurse is a character I've never heard of, looks like she's a demon. Speaking of Demons, has Etrigan really never been on this team? I remember he was in the movie.

Etrigan's New 52 appearences as far as I remember were as part of the Demon Knights and in Stormwatch for a couple issues

[Yodaking]

Once upon a time there were a 2 or 3 different Constantine designs that were pretty heavily work shopped. I believe one of them had a JLD theme to it. Not sure where to look to dig them up but I can see what I can find.

[ALEXAN2507]

For the record, here's my justification for some of those potential III and II designs I was throwing out

WW III- A Diana that acts as a JLD leader and maybe has a Witchmark/Witchmode associated power
Zatanna II- A Zatanna that acts as a JLD leader
Swamp Thing II- His power levels from all his New 52 and Rebirth appearences that I've read feel like they merit him at being far more than a 235 point figure, and this could give him that Creature synergy
Man-Bat II- Kirk currently has more control over the mutation coming out, but if we have no interest in Scientists being part of the JLD synergy, there's little to no point in giving him a 2nd figure since part of my idea was to make him a Scientist