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  #301  
Old July 4th, 2020, 12:30 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Also, I had mentioned this to @NecroBlade on discord and he had agreed with me, but I would recommend making a very slight adjustment to the wording on Blink to read (changed text in bold):

Quote:
After a Velnesh Alpha rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure and is not destroyed, it may immediately move using its Shift special power.
I think this language is a little more precise, and more closely follows the precedent set by Spidey-Sense for triggering movement abilities outside of when they would normally be used.
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Old July 4th, 2020, 12:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Thanks for the test caps.

Personally I’d rather finish what we started than start adjusting units who are already ready to go.
Part of playtesting is adjusting based on the results. With that said, I would want to see more results before really pushing for the change I mentioned. I just want to make sure it is on the table

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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  #303  
Old July 5th, 2020, 07:34 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous View Post
Also, I had mentioned this to @NecroBlade on discord and he had agreed with me, but I would recommend making a very slight adjustment to the wording on Blink to read (changed text in bold):

Quote:
After a Velnesh Alpha rolls defense dice against a normal attack from an opponent's figure and is not destroyed, it may immediately move using its Shift special power.
I think this language is a little more precise, and more closely follows the precedent set by Spidey-Sense for triggering movement abilities outside of when they would normally be used.
Thanks for the reminder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Thanks for the test caps.

Personally Id rather finish what we started than start adjusting units who are already ready to go.
Part of playtesting is adjusting based on the results. With that said, I would want to see more results before really pushing for the change I mentioned. I just want to make sure it is on the table
So far I've been pretty happy with them being more offense-oriented, but it's certainly an option if they really start testing poorly.


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  #304  
Old July 6th, 2020, 05:17 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

It's definitely an option to keep on the table - we have an extra layer of design here that we may indeed need to go back and change some things.
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  #305  
Old July 28th, 2020, 05:37 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Map: Custom
Spoiler Alert!


Army 1: (L) Velnesh Alphas, 12 Caucasus Rifles x3, Kursus, Yi Feng
Army 2: (J) Ukushisa Pride, Lilja, James Murphy, Marro Stingers

Which units survived? Army 1 was victorious with full life Yi Feng and Kursus and two 12th Caucasus Rifle


Turn by Turn Summary
Spoiler Alert!


How useful were playtesting units' powers and how often did they come into play?

Unfortunately the Ukushisa were all killed on the second turn due to some very unlucky defense rolls. J rolled zero skulls with his first 9 defense dice (9000 anyone?) losing two Ukushisa right at the start to the Russians’ Grenade special attack. The last Ukushisa was killed by the Russians’ normal attack that same turn. However, had they survived that initial attack from the Russians (which they statistically should have), I think the game would have gone very differently. Holding the +1 common attack glyph would have allowed his stingers to be much more effective at clearing my Russians, and the Stinger threat would have diverted my attention from the Ukushisa. However, given the way the game actually went, the firecats had relatively little impact.

The Velnesh Alphas dealt one wound to Lilja, and used Blink once to move out of engagement with Lilja after she missed her first attack. This use of Blink was relatively significant, as it prevented Lilja from attacking the Velnesh a second time with her double attack.

Any additional comments (theme, balance, fun factor with and against)?

I still like the Velnesh quite a lot. Simple and effective to play. So far they haven’t had very much of an impact in my handful of playtests, but I still like where they’re at. Unfortunately I didn’t get to see much from the Ukushisa this game as they all died on turn 2. I guess the lesson here is to never underestimate the chances of rolling zero skulls with five defense
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  #306  
Old August 9th, 2020, 10:10 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Another playtest added to the OP, thanks @Captain Stupendous . Blinking in and out of engagement is definitely a simple joy.


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  #307  
Old August 13th, 2020, 04:42 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

I think the Velnesh are the strongest and most master-set-ey design we have so far. Great work, folks!
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  #308  
Old August 16th, 2020, 08:30 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

I haven't had a map for them yet with a ton of height and cover to bounce around in, but they feel great when they pull off those niche uses, and have done so in other tests (although at times with slightly different wording). They certainly feel like a master set design, and another reason I like the "after moving" (only) wording better is because their opponent doesn't have so many possibilities to try to account for, so they can try to play around the better.


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  #309  
Old September 27th, 2020, 08:42 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Putting this up while it's still fresh.

Me: Mimring, Tarn, Pyria, Ukushisa
vs MegaSilver: Q10, Isamu, Velkohr, Velnesh

Went for a 400-ish point "Master Set" style game with several units to test and no Common Squads.

Spoiler Alert!


Some thoughts after the game (mainly MegaSilver's): Shift/Blink had lots of good, fun options around/through the wall, made NecroBlade think of where to position figures that weren't actively involved in attacking. Velkhor's concept of reducing defense is good, but the execution is disappointing. The 1 shield minimum made the Aura ineffective, especially felt bad rolling 1-skull attacks knowing that it couldn't help. Velnesh and Ukushisa could probably swap points, the 5A/6D of the UP did a lot of work.

My thoughts for Velnesh: this wasn't a great matchup, given the two special attackers I had, but MegaSilver made good use of them as fast troops to tie things up. Their relative simplicity but unique style shined, even if it didn't amount to much damage. It did feel like the Ukushisa did more, though, for (currently) less points.


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  #310  
Old September 30th, 2020, 11:57 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

VOLCARRAN PARADISE by Flash_19
No glyphs
Astro: Abe no Seimei, Kincho, Ibaraki-doji, Nure Onna (390 Points)
Guest: Velnesh Alphas, Zogross Hardscale, Greenscale Warriors x3 (400 Points)

Cards Used for the Yokai:
Spoiler Alert!


SURVIVING UNITS:
Abe no Seimei (1 wound)
~104 Points Left

GAME SUMMARY:
I led with Nure Onna, but mistimed some initial plays resulting in Ibaraki and her taking a wound from lava field at the end of the round. The other player then won initiative and surrounded Nure Onna, killing her immediately at the start of the next round. I was able to fly Ibaraki-doji in to reclaim her spot thanks to Kincho being perched nearby, using Demon of Rashomon to force a Velnesh to flee and taking out a Greenscale.

The Greenscales then surrounded Ibaraki, trapping him on his little perch of lava height as he went to town with Demon of Rashomon. He sustained heavy wounds in return (particularly from the Velnesh), and was soon down to only 1 life remaining. I bet only OM1 on him, but got lucky and watched him survive another full round thanks to some whiffed Velnesh attacks and high defensive rolls. After another initiative win, I used one OM on Ibaraki again to wipe out a Greenscale, move into his space, and then kill the last remaining Greenscale, paralyzing the other player until OM3, when the sole remaining Velnesh Alpha finally finished off the 1 life Ibaraki from height.

In the meantime, Seimei had moved in and started taking potshots down on Zogross, who was still engaged to Kincho. By the end of the round, Zogross had been finished off and it was down to a full life Kincho and Seimei against one Velnesh Alpha. The Velnesh put up a valiant fight, Shifting around the map to evade Seimei and finishing off Kincho in one blow. Still, he couldn’t deal more than one wound to Seimei before his luck finally fell out and the sorcerer finished him off.

NOTES:
Lava was brutal in this game. No figure went unscathed when they took that risk—it dealt two wounds to Ibaraki, one to Nure Onna (which let her die to just three wounds the next turn), killed a Velnesh, and also killed a Greenscale.

POWER USAGE:
Shift was used every turn. The other player liked to throw two OMs on the Greenscales and 1 OM on the Velnesh each round, which wasn’t exactly the ideal strategy, but it resulted in Ibaraki being forced to prioritize which one posed the greater threat each turn (helped along by Divination, of course).

Blink was used a lot, especially on the last surviving Velnesh at the end of the game. Unfortunately, one of the early rounds saw a Velnesh whiff and reduce them down to two members, but they were still able to pack a good punch with their 4 attack, especially if they got height thanks to Shift. Another Velnesh died to lava field, but the last one lasted for a good two rounds thanks to his ability to shift next to trees and avoid dangerous targets.

All in all, they dealt 4 wounds to Ibaraki, 1 wound to Seimei, and 3 wounds to Kincho for a total of 150 points of damage dealt, despite them only having two members for much of the game.

THOUGHTS:
I really like these guys. They’re super fun just to fight against and anticipate where they’re going to go, and they’re nice melee beatsticks. The other player was pretty new to the game (he had only played two games a bit over a year ago before, when he felt like his armies were too complicated), but he quickly got the hang of these guys and really enjoyed using them. He said that they were some of his favorite units in the game so far, so I think that we’re doing pretty good here.
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  #311  
Old October 6th, 2020, 08:45 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

Great! These guys seemed to have landed at a really good spot. So glad everyone is liking them. I've added the playtest to the OP. One day when I have enough time, I'll go through and see what the sum recommendation is here. Unless something really stands out, we might have enough tests.


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  #312  
Old October 7th, 2020, 09:39 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Velnesh Alphas (Leyline Phantoms) - Playtesting

If/when you do look over the results, keep this question in mind please

Quote:
I am wondering if we should lower their attack to 3. If we do that we could probably lower their points. We might also raise their defense... I was playing them and thinking about how we wanted to have more variety in defense values in the Master Set.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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