Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[Tornado]

Thanks q!

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by quozl

Already done.

Oh wow, gents, thanks! That was fast.

@quozl , would you mind doing the same for our map display thread too? I'll post over there now, quoting you.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Tornado

dok needs to make a throw away post and @quozl can make that happen.

One imagines I have made many posts that quozl would consider throwaways.

[Tornado]

It happens to the best of us.

[dok]

While we are looking to add a couple more to the roster, hopefully, our initial slate of judges is dok, Flash_19, OEAO, and superfrog. I've cleared our slate; let the nominations begin!

(Remember, maps must have been played at 2 public events in order to get nominated.)

[Sir Heroscape]

I’m guessing we’ll need to link the event reference page in order to nominate? At least, that’s probably the best way to do it right?

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I’m guessing we’ll need to link the event reference page in order to nominate? At least, that’s probably the best way to do it right?

Yes, that's probably the best way to do it.

[OEAO]

I'd like to officially nominate the entire BoV catalogue, found here.

I will begin working on my own write-ups tomorrow.

Edit: Note that the formal nomination requirements were waived for the BoV catalogue, as a main reason for the WoS reboot was to grandfather in the best of the BoV as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by dok

While we are looking to add a couple more to the roster, hopefully, our initial slate of judges is dok, Flash_19, OEAO, and superfrog. I've cleared our slate; let the nominations begin!

(Remember, maps must have been played at 2 public events in order to get nominated.)

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by OEAO

I'd like to officially nominate the entire BoV catalogue, found here.

I will begin working on my own write-ups tomorrow.

[dok]

I have played on every BoV map, and in the case of all but some of the oldest ones, many times. I don’t need any extra testing; I have my votes. These will be quick reviews - forgive me, but I am writing 32 of them.

Mole Hills - A relic of a bygone era. The central pool and uneven terrain makes for a shooting gallery for approaching figures. NO to induct.

Arctic Divide - A much more polished map and one I’ve enjoyed using in Heat of Battle formats. But the corner perches and the slog across the center doom this map. NO to induct.

Marr Highway - I mean, this really feels more like a concept map then a map that you are meant to use at an event. And I like a good concept map - I’ve made a couple of my own - but I don’t think the gameplay here comes close to justifying the issues a super-long map creates for a tournament. NO to induct.

Highways & Dieways - It *might* not be the best map ever made, but in my mind it’s unquestionably the most important and innovative map ever made. It changed the notion of what a tournament map could be, and paved the way for most of the great maps that followed. It still holds up to this day.

I’ve probably played a dozen or more tournament games on this map, and observed many more. Despite being billed as pro-melee in its time, I actually think it’s fairly balanced for range and melee. It doesn’t make it easy for range to potshot melee, and it forces you to get out of your startzone, but it gives range lots of perches to play with. It’s fair, dynamic, and beautiful. YES to induct.

Ember Canyon Road - this is a very strange map in many ways. I appreciate the unusual gameplay at times, but two massive hills separated by a canyon can make for some very un-fun matchups. NO to induct.

Broken Skyline - a very solid effort to make capped columns work on a tournament map. But in the end, they’re still kind of busted. The big plateaus on each player’s right hand side aren’t great either. NO to induct.

Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh - honestly not a bad 1x RotV map, but the inclusion of trees with no road is an odd one, and the elevated startzones are a huge issue. NO to induct.

Hot Heights - another map I’ve enjoyed in Heat of Battle games, but in regular games it’s mostly a shooting gallery. The lava field high ground isn’t consistent enough to stop ranged figures from finding their perches and having a field day. NO to induct.

Swamp Thing - I tend to look down on maps that use 2 master sets if even one of them is RotV or SotM, and this uses both. The road isn’t used very efficiently, and this map is one of the worst cases of the “two hill” problem, where armies can end up stuck starting at each other from opposing heights, daring their opponent to push across and attack up. NO to induct.

Turret Rocks - This map has become a bit of a meme with how crazy it can be in the wrong matchups. The high ground is just unnecessarily high and difficult to access, and the water further penalizes melee armies on the advance. NO to induct.

Embattled Fen - I like maps that create unique experiences, and Embattled Fen creates a unique experience. It’s crazy that a map with basically no LoS blockers can be decent for melee, but it pulls it off thanks to two effective road lanes and a lack of unnecessary changes in height. That same lack of blockers and speed bumps also means it’s very hard to clog this map, which is an underrated bonus for many armies that want to brawl.

I’ve found the entire map gets used in many games, and the meager height changes that do exist help keep things dynamic. The map is also a minimalist aesthetic marvel, and one of the very few maps ever made with perfect mirror symmetry. YES to induct.

Road Rampage - I’ll say from the outset that this is, for me, probably the most difficult vote of the 32 maps in the BoV. I think this map is pretty underrated and underused. I’ve played on it multiple times and I’ve found it to be pretty dynamic. Charge-up-the-middle is totally viable, but moving out to the sides for the 3-hex hill is a reasonable alternative. It’s fast, dynamic, and fun. Also, the aesthetic of the winding river with the bridge going over it is really well done. For a rotationally symmetric map to communicate a natural feature in such a clear way is pretty cool.

It does have a couple issues, though. One is that the glyphs can be a bit “yours and mine” because the road makes it much easier to contest the one on your left. If that glyph is stronger it’s a meaningful advantage. The other issue is that the railings and central river make for choke points if you are trying to get at the 3-hex height on the opposite side from your startzone. Two rats can do a lot of work here.

In the end, it’s a tough call, but while I like this map I think others do better with this terrain combo and I can’t give it a full-throated endorsement. NO to induct.

Fire Isles - as I said in my review of Embattled Fen, I like maps that create unique experiences. Fire Isles does this in spades. There are few maps where I feel as much pressure from the first OM as I do in this one. The small size and rush-friendly setup keeps it from being too range friendly despite the open center. The lava high ground does its job, keeping play dynamic through most of the game. The dance for high ground at the beginning of each round on this map is pretty fun. I’ve had scores of memorable games on this map.

It’s not without its flaws, to be sure. The startzones are a bit unituitive, with the one grass hex that’s not SZ-legal (to keep glyph spacing even) not being immediately obvious. I’ve also seen the map have some annoying endgames. Kite-around-the-lava-river is definitely a thing, and the single-space 3-height sand can be a very annoying Kaemon perch (or any single-spaced hero, really) in endgame.

Still, for me, no other map plays quite the same way, and I really like the way this map plays in early and middle game. Maybe someday someone will make a map that delivers the Fire Isles experience for me in a better package, and that one will replace this one in the WoS. But until that day comes, YES to induct.

Ice Blossom - another odd choice to use trees without road, and this map is just an absolute bear to maneuver around. I haven’t played many games on this map but I saw enough figures struggling to engage to disqualify it. NO to induct.

Flash Fire - This is a good map, to be sure. If Highways & Dieways didn’t exist I’d probably like it even more. But the central low ground with its glyph choke point divides the map in a way that cuts down on the dynamic freedom of the map. I’ve seen lots of games on this map collapse to one side, and the army that could have benefitted from flanking around can’t quite find a way to do it that's worth the time.

Again, I think it’s is a very good map, but for this terrain load, you can do better, I think. NO to induct.

Badru Valley - I’ve had good games on this map, but I’ve also had some bad ones. It’s definitely a map that has the two hill problem, and the approaches from the start zones are a bit too lumpy for my taste. NO to induct.

Ticalla Sunrise - I know the moat around the startzones is weird and occasionally exploitable. I know the asymmetries in the map can make a difference in some games (although IMO one side is not consistently better). In the end, though, I have to overlook these weirdnesses. This map is a tournament staple for a reason - it’s a dynamic map that sees action throughout, has excellent pathing, is fair to a wide variety of armies, and manages to do it with an essential and small terrain combo. I love this map for its idiosyncrasies, not in spite of them. As many of the reviews at the time said, the asymmetry also makes it feel less artificial than basically any map in the game. YES to induct.

Can’t See The Jungle - it hasn’t seen a lot of play at Gencon, but we’ve used it quite a few times online, and I like it a lot. Once again, I value maps that deliver a unique experience while still being balanced and dynamic. This one, very obviously, does so. No other map goes as hard into split startzones as this one with such great success.

I’ll note that despite the up-front zones, I’ve seen this map play both fast and slow, and play to the advantage of both range and melee. The biggest downside to this map is that the sheer size of the footprint can lead to some very protracted endgames. Still I think it’s worth it for what this map brings to the table. YES to induct.

Sidewinder - for a long time this was the best Tundra map available. And it still has some things I really like. The LoS blockers are used extremely well, and I love the challenges this map presents in deploying out of your startzone.

That said, the two hill problem really kills this map. I’ve seen and played too many games on this map where each army seizes one hill, and they nibble and feint and snipe and try to get the other one to yolo-charge across the middle. It can be fun, but it’s often kind of frustrating. NO to induct.

Invasion - The attention to detail on this map is fantastic. It really seems like the speed of deployment out of the startzones to different spots on this map were very carefully and consciously chosen. I’ve had and watched a ton of really interesting and memorable games on this map, and I’ve found all the major areas of the map see play. It has good options for both range and melee in all the permutations of their matchup. YES to induct.

Elswin Plateau - part of me really likes this map. I’ve had a number of memorable games on it. The double glyph balances the height pretty well, and the jungle cover is quite useful. That said, honestly, it feels like a map that lacks polish. I am not a stickler for aesthetics but the seemingly random interplay of sand and grass bugs me. I am also bothered by the total lack of any height changes for large swaths of the map. I don’t like speed bumps, but I also don’t like when so many spaces don’t give up height or give height to any adjacent spaces. It’s a tricky balance, but this map is just too flat on the low side. NO to induct.

Fossil - A great little map that offers tons of choices from the get go. It can be surprisingly range-friendly for a map that features a road figure eight, but you can definitely succeed either way. It’s one of my very favorite maps to play on and theoryscape about - small positional choices are often really amplified on this map, and I love that. An easy YES to induct.

Quasatch Playground - Another map that drives the action in a really enjoyable way. The combination of being a pretty long map, but giving such an advantage to reaching the middle first, creates a really interesting strategic dynamic on this one. It’s quite easy to come at your opponent from multiple angles. Trees in the startzone are an odd choice (owing to the origin of the map) but actually works here since the startzones are still really bad anyway. YES to induct.

Blackroot - Unfortunately I just haven’t really enjoyed my games on this one, by and large. Despite the sets used, I’ve found it to be a hard map to get around. Bumps in the road often leave me short of where I want to be, and it’s also relatively easy to clog up. It can also sometimes lead to two hill endgames, which isn’t great. It’s a beautiful map but ultimately one I haven’t enjoyed my games on. NO to induct.

(Has H&D spoiled me for RttFFx2 maps? Possibly!)

Fulcrum - I wrote a whole strategy guide about this map because I love nerding out about it so much. The 3-hexers on the sides can be turtling spots for some armies, but I’ve seen plenty of armies take the W by assaulting that position. This map makes use of water dunking your own figures better than basically any map I’ve seen. A very easy YES to induct.

If You Can’t Take the Heat… - This map really shows the power of well-deployed lava terrain. Every time I look at this map my first instinct is that it will be a terrible slog to get across and will get clogged up all over the place. And yet, in my experience, this basically never happens. The worst thing I can say is that half the map can often get ignored, but even then it seems like figures can get to where they want. The lava just gives you the paths you need.

I am a bit worried about same-level lava in this world of chainfighters and Wyverns, but I don’t think that’s quite enough to disqualify an otherwise enjoyable and unique map. YES to induct.

Burial Marsh - I grumble internally (ok, fine, audibly) every time I play on this map. It has a bit of a two-hills problem, but what’s worse is that you can pull off some really nasty double-spacer denial on this map. I also don’t like the look of this terrain combo. Yeah, this one has just never been my cup of tea. NO to induct.

Bad Moon Rising - Remember how I said H&D might not be the best map ever made? Well, BMR might be. This map is just a tour de force. The economy of the build instructions is a marvel (even though I usually use spare tiles instead of the fortress bases). The pathing is just fantastic, the choices you have are really interesting… it’s just really really really good in every way and despite being on the BoV it doesn’t get as much recognition as it deserves. YES to induct.

Sirocco - Beautiful map that’s nice in many ways, but… two hill problem. It’s just not a very dynamic map. Nearly every time I’ve tried to go both ways on this map it hasn’t worked out. I’ve had plenty of good games on this map but I’ve also had some clunkers where it just didn’t drive the action the way I’d like. NO to induct.

Stygian Rift - When I think of lava maps, this is the first one that comes to mind. The interplay of shadow and lava field in the center of the map is just really nicely done. While I haven’t used the full width in every game, it’s there for the games where there’s a lot of figures in play in the center. It’s another one of those maps where every move count feels intentional. Again we have same level lava, which I don’t love but is not something I’m currently going to use as the basis to reject an otherwise fantastic map. YES to induct.

Daugur - From fire to ice. As with Stygian and lava, this is the map that comes to mind for me for Tundra maps. The LoS blocking on this map is obviously extensive but the really solid pathing keeps it from being too clogged up too easily. We’ve often used power glyphs on the sides, and while those do become choke points as a result, it’s not too bad. YES to induct.

Dance of the Dryads - I’ll say at the outset that aesthetically, I don’t like this map. However, from a gameplay perspective it’s really solid. It’s also a map that uses just a single BFTU master set, which is a massive challenge to pull off. It wouldn’t get a pass for me on that if it played badly, but it means I’ll give it a little slack on its looks.

From a gameplay perspective the worst part of the map is that ranged armies tend to want to go left to use the level 2 area outside their startzone. Still, it’s easy enough to close on them, and the map hits the right notes most of the time. YES to induct.

[Tornado]

Nice reviews. Fun read.