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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books. |
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#157
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
I guess it would be a case of how is he most consistently portrayed. I’m not a Turtle expert at all, my few exposures to Splinter have been much more of the doting old man variety.
Another question: a heroscape battle (in my mind) captures a battle several hours long. I have no doubt that Splinter can hold his own against most skilled fighters in a man-to-man, minutes-long fight, but can he consistently hold his own? What’s more thematic, him being a knock-down, jaw-breaking, ASS-kicking Fighter or being a mentor? I think he should be a support piece, not a front line menace. Think of it like Yoda. If you were to design a Yoda figure, would you go for a monster fighter or a mentor figure? Which would be more iconic? We’ve seen Yoda kick absolute ass, but iconically, would you prefer a mentor figure? |
#158
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
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#159
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
One more thing - I recognise Splinter hasn't always been portrayed the same way. However, the TMNT C3G stuff so far has officially taken its cues from the IDW series, where he is a badass. I, as Lead Designer, know him from the 2003 series, where he is a badass. If you'd like a version of him more like the 80s cartoon, where he is getting older and isn't the fighter he used to be but is still the wise old mentor he always is, that would make for a fine design, there's a figure for it, go for it... but that version is not this version.
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#160
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
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I think you still need some space and distance here and advise you continue with Hun and let this simmer a bit more. By the way I have relocated my versions of the IDW series so I'll be re reading them shortly. Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those. |
#161
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
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I actually have an idea of how to implement that, but I'd still like to wait a little while before coming back to it - I just feel as though I've had to come in to clear up what I'm actually looking for and avoid misconceptions while people have been commenting. As such, I would like to make a clear cutoff - everyone has until midnight tomorrow (GMT) to voice any opinions they may wish to. After that, I would like to ask for a clear period of no comments on this thread until I'm ready to open it again. Is that okay with everyone? |
#162
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
Upon further looking into what all the Turtles are offering, I feel we should have him fill in the cracks more. Make them stronger by keeping them focused.
An attack boost isn't necessary upon Splinter's death since Leo is also offering that already with Turtle Power. I don't think we need to see Leo rolling 7 attack dice(8 at height) once Splinter is down. I think this could be accomplished with addition by subtraction. Make what Splinter is offering when he's alive, valuable enough that when he's taken out, the Turtles then have to rely on their own training to get them through but you feel the hurt because you are no longer receiving Splinter's guidance. So tackling these one at a time, here's the first suggested power, which covers Splinter's ability to keep the Turtles focused. Quote:
Next up on the list to properly capture the character is what does Splinter do to protect the Turtles, and how does he react/change if they are taken down? Quote:
Lastly, we have his martial arts ability, which I like what you have so it'll go pretty much unchanged. I feel dropping the auto-shield is reasonable here, with the change to Wisdom of the Rat and potential increase to 6 defense. Quote:
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#163
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
I like that Devotion power, very similar to what Sif has already. It also better mechanically executes the idea that he jumps into the fight only once things start going bad while increasing his butt kicking potential at that point. However, I'm just not sure how it would work out with what the Turtles already have. I have not played the Turtles yet but it looks like you burn all the OM's on turn 1 to take a turn with all of them. Thus as it currently stands if a Turtle goes down on turn 2 or 3, there are no unrevealed OM's still in play to save and take advantage of.
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#164
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
I had thought that might be an issue. So I'd say a reasonable change to make it play a bit better would be:
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#165
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
Okay, since Hun is basically done, it's finally time to come back here. I'm looking back at Arkham's ideas and... I really like them. I was initially skeptical over him basically coming in when a Turtle was destroyed, as I didn't think him waiting until one of his sons was actually dead felt right, and then I thought - destroyed doesn't really mean 'dead' in Heroscape, does it? I mean, yes, it certainly can, but it can also mean knocked out, having multiple broken limbs, being just so utterly beaten down you can't move - basically anything that means that you've been incapacitated enough to no longer participate in the battle, and, while the Turtles aren't dead by the time their father comes, in one or more of them is quite often in that incapacitated state. I really like the idea of making him a combat badass once one of his sons is taken down, as well as allowing him to protect any of his sons who are wounded when he does enter the fray. I feel like he's finally going to start feeling like Splinter.
The ability to add skulls or shields or boost your D20 roll is also inspired - it can make Splinter himself better in combat while also really nicely represeting his teachings to his sons, and allowing him to cool off Raph's temper the way I said I wanted him to (also pairs really nicely with Mikey, too). The fact you can only use each boost once per round will require you to be clever and restrained, and pick the right moment - so very, very Master Splinter. The one thing I'd change there is that I'd like to keep the Order Marker retrieval. I never found it super-powerful, but it's still a really useful ability for the Turtles to have and gives him a really fun, thematic interaction with Leo (who, notably, is the only Turtle who doesn't benefit at all from the D20 boost, so giving him another interaction there is I think helpful). Also, a retrieved OM means a greater chance for his Father's Devotion Order Marker retrieval to be useful, so a nice bit of cross power synergy there. I think it can fit naturally into the proposed Wisdom of the Rat power, since it's another once per round bonus that plays off the Turtles' powers. In the end, this is what I would like to go with, moving forwards: MASTER SPLINTER RODENT UNIQUE HERO SENSEI WISE MEDIUM 4 4 LIFE MOVE 5 RANGE 1 ATTACK 4 DEFENCE 6 230 Points? TEACHINGS OF THE RAT After any attack dice, defence dice, or the 20-sided die is rolled for Master Splinter or any Ninja Turtle you control within clear sight of Splinter, you may add or subtract a skull, shield, or 4 from that roll. Each option can only be chosen once per round. Once per round, when an Order Marker is removed from any Ninja Turtle Army Card you control, you may immediately place that Order Marker on this army card or any Ninja Turtle Army Card you control. FATHER'S DEVOTION Figures engaged with Master Splinter cannot attack a wounded Ninja Turtle you control. When a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place any unrevealed Order Markers from its card on this card. For the rest of the game, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time. BREAKING BALANCE When attacking an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack, or when defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, if they roll more skulls than shields and Master Splinter is not destroyed, that figure receives a wound. **************************** Thanks for the input, @Arkham - you've really helped get this design somewhere I'm feeling happy with it. If I were able to, I'd rep you! |
#166
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
I feel that version really encourages downplaying the Turtle synergy and doing generalist stuff with him. Running him with Donatello in a Cap and/or Star-Lord build is like, his best use-case.
Some suggested tweaks, with the aim of encouraging him to play with the Turtles: Quote:
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#167
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
If you really wanted to not only make him come into action when the Turtles “die”, you could tweak the power like so:
FATHER’S DEVOTION Once per round, if a Ninja Turtle you control receives 1 or more wounds, you may move all of your Order Markers to this card. For the remainder of the round, while there is a wounded Ninja Turtle within 6 clear spaces of Master Splinter, that figure cannot be attacked and when Master Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time. |
#168
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Re: The Book of Master Splinter - ON HOLD
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So, all that together, how about this: MASTER SPLINTER RODENT UNIQUE HERO SENSEI WISE MEDIUM 4 4 LIFE MOVE 5 RANGE 1 ATTACK 4 DEFENCE 6 230 Points? TEACHINGS OF THE RAT After any attack dice, defense dice, or the 20-sided die is rolled for Master Splinter or a Ninja Turtle you control within clear sight of Master Splinter, you may add or subtract a skull, shield, or 4 from that roll. Splinter cannot modify another roll for that figure this round. NAME PENDING Once per round, when an Order Marker is removed from the card of a Ninja you control, you may place that Order Marker on this card. FATHER'S DEVOTION Figures engaged with Master Splinter cannot attack a wounded Ninja Turtle you control. When a Ninja Turtle you control is destroyed, you may place any unrevealed Order Markers from its card on this card. For the rest of the round, when Splinter attacks, he may attack one additional time. BREAKING BALANCE When attacking an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack, or when defending against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, if they roll more skulls than shields and Master Splinter is not destroyed, that figure receives a wound. |
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