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AotP General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #1  
Old August 8th, 2016, 10:20 AM
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Gencon 2016 Feedback

First of all, thank you very much for hosting the first Gencon AotP event. I was very glad to have participated and played with a lot of very nice and good players. It was a blast. I did want to offer my personal opinions and suggestions for next years' event should there be one.

I think using Heroscape maps were a bad idea. Well intentioned, but it wasn't best for the game. The game was built and tested with a flat board with limited terrain. This really helps mitigate ranged units and ridiculous summoning points. Using the Heroscape terrain just made ranged units almost godlike, and made it so melee figures would be even less used. I love Heroscape, but I like this game by its own merits and I was disappointed to see it changed.

The scoring should be partial units. We have the partial scoring available and printed on every army card, there is no reason to do anything but that. Full card scoring always feels rather lame.

I think that might be it, honestly. Don't let my comments get anybody down. It was an awesome tournament and I look forward to playing again. There were a variety of armies and that was great. I congratulate the winner, and hope we can help continue to grow the game! Thanks!
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  #2  
Old August 8th, 2016, 11:19 AM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

While I did not enter the GenCon tourney, about 90% of the my matches have been played on competitive 2p heroscape maps and I -much- prefer that to playing on the AOTP style scenarios with a completely barren map. I tend to use maps that include good road paths which helps to keep Melee in the game, also there's enough cards and such in AoTP that let you move your figures to really close the distance and collapse in on ranged units.
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  #3  
Old August 8th, 2016, 04:55 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I think a good compromise for AotP and Heroscape boards is to use custom built boards for AotP games made of Heroscape terrain. That's how my dad and I play, and we never have had problems. Maybe we need some sort of BoV for AotP HS maps set up in the next year so the GenCon people don't have to worry about it.

As for partial scoring, I think that switching to normal boards would essentially remove any need for games to go to time so I don't care about that at all.
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  #4  
Old August 9th, 2016, 08:37 AM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

You do not understand the logistics of the maps.

First there is limited space. So to make special AotP maps you are eliminating HS maps and thus limiting the number of players that can play HS for the entire convention.

Those maps just sit empty while no AotP is not being played.

Now if AotP gets popular enough to justify an event for every or nearly every game slot then that starts becoming more feasible and actually would make things easier for map set-up and tear down.

I doubt if AotP will be there by next year but you never know.

Kudos to the Gen Con team this year!!

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  #5  
Old August 9th, 2016, 10:17 AM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I'm aware of how GenCon currently does maps. I'm also aware that games of AotP don't work well on BoV-size and style boards. There are lots of different ways to solve the logistics of the issue. I am just trying to start discussion
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  #6  
Old August 9th, 2016, 10:39 AM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

How do you have special AotP maps without replacing the Heroscape map?

Discussion is a good thing but your proposal requires an answer that goes beyond game play. I do not disagree with what you are saying, I just do not see how it is possible.

If you do, then please tell us.

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  #7  
Old August 9th, 2016, 03:17 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

Well, the ideal solution would be a couple small boards built out of terrain that was leftover from the Heroscape boards. But space is an issue, although it may not be if GenCon can be persuaded that AotP has an audience.

Another answer is to have a few boards chosen for the Heroscape events modified to fit AotP. These changes could be as simple as taking off the flat start zones, or the side hills. Not all boards chosen for GenCon Heroscape would have to be modifiable, just a couple that could be used the in the AoTP event.

Another solution is the reverse of that: design a single board that would work for AOTP play that could be modified into a Heroscape board with a few more hexes added on top.

I am not sure why your responses are hostile. I was satisfied with how the AotP event went for the first tournament ever. I just want to come up with a way to make it better next year so the game can grow
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Old August 9th, 2016, 03:51 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I apologize as that was not my intent. Hard to express tone online.
I usually post a smiley but thought it would come off as condescending.

I just want to make sure you understand what the team goes through to set this all up and the maps are a huge part of it.

I am all about more fun, better play, ect. but not at the expense of the hosts, unless they are cool with it.

Getting more space is going to be tough. You are still going to have the AotP maps sitting empty. Board modification may be possible but the first step is to create these boards/maps that currently do not exist(unless they do) and the clock is already ticking for next year.

If folks start creating Heroscape worthy maps that start with the AotP maps as a base that can be quickly modified for use in AotP, I think that would be incredibly awesome and would likely make the GC crew's life easier and that is a great thing that I will commend you for in the future veggie.

I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor.

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  #9  
Old August 9th, 2016, 06:20 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I honestly think the discussion should be more around what exactly the issues you guys have had with playing AoTP on Heroscape style maps are. I've played quite a few (the vast majority of my AoTP games) on HS maps and felt that it was much MORE strategic playing on these style of maps instead of just being able to summon straight into combat and have jace pinging your guys from his start zone because theres no useful LOS blockers and no way to get high ground on him.

I personally have not seen a need to modify them to have competitive strategic matches of AoTP while using HS maps. Smart LOS blocker and Road design "really helps mitigate ranged units and ridiculous summoning points" as stated in the OP discussing flat maps.

Last edited by Kajoq; August 9th, 2016 at 11:56 PM.
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Old August 9th, 2016, 07:38 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
I honestly think the discussion should be more around what exactly issues you guys have had with playing AoTP on Heroscape style maps. I've played quite a few (the vast majority of my AoTP games) on HS maps and felt that it was much MORE strategic playing on these style of maps instead of just being able to summon straight into combat and have jace pinging your guys from his start zone because theres no useful LOS blockers and no way to get high ground on him.

I personally have not seen a need to modify them to have competitive strategic matches of AoTP while using HS maps. Smart LOS blocker and Road design "really helps mitigate ranged units and ridiculous summoning points" as stated in the OP discussing flat maps.
All of this.

I wasnt at Gencon, nor do I ever plan on attending. But I almost exclusively play on HS map tiles.

The issue about "Using the Heroscape terrain just made ranged units almost godlike, and made it so melee figures would be even less used." seems questionable to me.

Green units of which there are two (Eld Rangers, Kessig Rangers). Good for Green since they normally are subpar. I hope Green cleaned up at the tourney. turn around is fair play for once.

Blue has three.(Necroalchemist and Merfolk roilmage, iilusionary projections) and as heroes, their output is one shot a turn each. Illusionary projections are the actual threat.

Red kinda has goblin javelineers, but that is even less effective as as hero firing due to the chaotic randomness of their ability.

White has Kor Hookmasters... with a whopping range of 3.

Other than the Planeswalkers themselves, not really any other ranged units. Yet. I know Blue has tricksy tricks, but it just hasnt presented itself to be that much of a problem to me or others I have played with.

Seems like much ado about nothing to me. Im not seeing an issue.
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  #11  
Old August 10th, 2016, 07:49 AM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I have been playing a lot of 5 player games lately and must say I like AotP especially because it makes melee units more playable. Forget slow rolling a formation into combat, get your planeswalker into position and summon some Rhox or Treeroots on top of those annoying ranged figures.

I also think that more HS-like maps really help green, who has tended to come out at the bottom of most of the games we have played. Their movement and range emphasis doesn't help them as much on a flat map as it does running across uneven terrain.

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Old August 12th, 2016, 09:51 PM
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Re: Gencon 2016 Feedback

I think AotP melee is much better off on Heroscape maps than HS melee is, since they can be summoned right into the fight instead of getting picked off as they approach.

I think the real problem at GenCon was that Wendigo was in the map pool, not that glances HS maps are bad for AotP.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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