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  #2893  
Old November 5th, 2008, 06:33 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Looks like I will be enjoying my trips to Michigan far more than I previously had!

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  #2894  
Old November 5th, 2008, 06:38 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
All right - thank you Roland and Bannister for a delightful discussion. I've greatly enjoyed reading your reasoned perspectives on a very touchy subject. I won't be able to post again until much later, so I sign off with great respect for you both.

~Aldin, salutingly

ETA Bannister, you posted as I was posting this. Simply put, if I order a desk from Canada and assemble it myself I still haven't made the desk. If the important part of creating that desk was the ability to make it then I haven't provided that. If the important part was the ability to assemble it then I have.
I guess I'm just being dense but I fail to see how it isn't fulfilling #1 on your list. You aren't asking for new "life" you are asking for new "taxpayer's". If a Chinese baby spends it's life in China then that baby never generates a nickle of "tax" for the state. If that Chinese baby is instead, adopted by an American couple (either straight or homosexual) then doesn't that fulfill the "new taxpayer" role?

Talk tomorrow.

Bannister

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  #2895  
Old November 5th, 2008, 06:39 PM
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Exclamation Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Looks like I will be enjoying my trips to Michigan far more than I previously had!
Well just remember, whatever proposal a state puts forth is still trumped by federal law. Would't want you to get the wrong idea and wind up arrested.

Last edited by DrRansom; November 5th, 2008 at 06:52 PM. Reason: sp
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  #2896  
Old November 5th, 2008, 06:41 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by DrRansom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Looks like I will be enjoying my trips to Michigan far more than I previously had!
Well just remember, whatever proposal a state puts forth is still trumped by federal law. Would't want you te get the wrong idea and wind up arrested.
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  #2897  
Old November 5th, 2008, 06:55 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by DrRansom View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Looks like I will be enjoying my trips to Michigan far more than I previously had!
Well just remember, whatever proposal a state puts forth is still trumped by federal law. Would't want you te get the wrong idea and wind up arrested.
The feds will threaten to pull their law enforcement funds and the state will buckle. Happened here last year. Decriminalization MUST happen at the federal level.
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  #2898  
Old November 5th, 2008, 07:00 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

I thought of something on the way home, sort of a double-edged sword to my freedom argument.

I don't believe states should have the option to legalize bigotry. However, if I want to afford equal freedoms to everyone, I have to extend them to the churches. While I am disgusted with the American Protestant Church, they do absolutely have the right to preach whatever hatred they think is moral. By the same token, Muslims have the right to attempt to get laws passed to outlaw pork. They will obviously have much less success, but they should have the right to try.

So Drumline, while I believe you have subscribed to a policy of bigotry that is in direct opposition to the values of American freedom, and a position that I think Jesus would find repulsive, I respect your right to believe what you believe.

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  #2899  
Old November 5th, 2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Most of the arguments against gay marriage bans have got me thinking about another marriage subject. If there is not a viable secular argument in favor of a gay marriage ban as some might suggest, then what about other forms of marriage. What about polygamous marriage? With those same arguments for gay marriage there should then also be legalized polygamous marriage. If a church is free to define marriage and who the will and will not marry, they should also be free to perform those marriages as well. What about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bannister View Post
Actually, they can adopt. If they adopt a baby from a foreign country that would then add a new taxpayer who didn't exist within this country before. Even if they didn't they would still be taking a baby that was a "ward of the state" out of the system which would save the state money.

The state could even find away to incentivize adoption as a way for homosexuals to start families, to encourage this activity.

Bannister
Adoption from another country is a liability to the government. The adoption costs aren't going into the domestic economy. The couple get a tax deduction and possibly a credit. There is a much bigger government cost than with domestic adoption or just having a kid.
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  #2900  
Old November 5th, 2008, 07:13 PM
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Bannister Bannister is offline
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

I'd have to try and figure out the numbers but I can say with some confidence that whatever adoption "expense" the state will have would be more than paid back in taxes over the life of the new citizen.

That doesn't even consider the taxes generate by their decendents.

Bannister


EDIT: Just FYI. As of now the maximum liability on the government is $11,650. Again, I feel confident a new taxpayer will more than make up for this over their lifetime.


Quote:
Originally Posted by irs.gov
For 2008, the maximum adoption credit has increased to $11,650. Also, the maximum exclusion from income for benefits under your employer's adoption assistance program has increased to $11,650. These amounts are phased out if your modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) is between $174,730 and $214,730. You cannot claim the credit or exclusion if your MAGI is $214,730 or more

That can only mean one thing. And I don't know what it is.

Last edited by Bannister; November 5th, 2008 at 07:26 PM.
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  #2901  
Old November 5th, 2008, 07:27 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Agent Minivann View Post
Most of the arguments against gay marriage bans have got me thinking about another marriage subject. If there is not a viable secular argument in favor of a gay marriage ban as some might suggest, then what about other forms of marriage. What about polygamous marriage? With those same arguments for gay marriage there should then also be legalized polygamous marriage. If a church is free to define marriage and who the will and will not marry, they should also be free to perform those marriages as well. What about that?
It's OK with me. Again, where's the victim?

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  #2902  
Old November 5th, 2008, 08:10 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumline3469 View Post
Who defined marriage? The church. If you want separation of church and state, then let the state stay out of it. If the church wants to marry gays (some will) then let them. If they don't want to, then don't make them. If the state wants to recognize unions for tax purposes, let them do that, but don't call it marriage. Marriage in its essence is a religious act.
Actually, "marriage" in a sense has existed globally since civilization's birth. You can't really say African wedding traditions were invented by the Church, right?

...just popping into point that out. BACK TO OBSERVATION!
Technically the 'church' didn't define marriage. God did. The first few chapters of the Bible. Adam and Eve. First marriage.
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  #2903  
Old November 5th, 2008, 08:12 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

Alright....I have been doing good all day....I have been thinking about the peaceful transfer of power the most powerful nation in the world is about to make and it fills me with satisfaction to live in such a place.

While obviously I do not support Obama's policies such as the Fairness doctrine and Spreading the Wealth, I will not cast stones in his general direction unless these policies are implemented...even then though he is still my President.

I have been humble all day even though the markets reacting to the news of an Obama victory caused a 500 point drop today on the market and my father in law has figured that if the new tax hikes go in effect we will be placing people on unemployment this Winter at the winery who depend on their checks. Problem is the winery already runs red in the Winter...it cannot take more on top of that and we only keep the restaurant open so those loyal workers can draw a paycheck.

But despite all of this I have been very calm and humble all day and have congratulated many folks on their canidates victory. I think that is how we should all act...but now for the rant...and it is gonna be a good one.

On my way home I was listening to talk radio and the Democrats kept calling in with the same message...and it grated my nerves to no end and made we want to scream....that message...

Now that Obama is going to lead the nation it is time for the nation to heal and unify behind it's new president...

Bull Friggin Honky...

Why is it up to me to unify behind a liberal canidate...where were these calls for bi-partisanship as the Democrats did everything they could to hamstring the current administration at every step.

Where was the unity as American Senators went overseas and talked about what a bad country we have become while standing right in the living room of the beast. Those men deserved to be exiled for that and any Republican who goes to Russia and talks about how weak Obama is deserves the same treatment if such a case arose.

The Democrats have sharpened there claws on the current President every chance they could. They have stuck their dripping venomous fangs into everything that he has done just so they could win an election. It has gotten to the point that the more Americans who could die in Iraq the better it was for their bitter agenda.

They have opposed at every step, disgraced us as a country in front of our enemies, caused more decisevness than any enemy or terrorist could have ever hoped for....and literally spewed forth venom every single day at the expense of the current administration and the other half of the country....


And then you have the nerve to come on and tell me it is time to heal old wounds and unify.....screw you. While I aprreciate that the Libs are such big hearted people that they can overcome our differneces now that they control power, I still say where were they for the past 8 years? Well they were out there undermining the current administration at every step so they could make this grand run at the Presidency.

As I have said, I consider myself a better person than that so I will not become a conservative attack dog just to do so. If Obama has a good idea then he should get credit for it...if he tries to push a socialist agenda then you will here me bark....but I cannot bear the absolute hipocrosy of those Liberals who now call for unity who could not even bring themselves to admit that the country had a President all along. I pray that your canidate gets a fairer shake than the one that was shown to the current administration.


Alright, I am better now....


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  #2904  
Old November 5th, 2008, 08:41 PM
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Re: Race for the presidency political discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Technically the 'church' didn't define marriage. God did. The first few chapters of the Bible. Adam and Eve. First marriage.
Technically, that is all made up nonsense meant to make animals that know about their own mortality feel better.

You are the brute squad!

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