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AotV Customs A place for Arena of the Valkyrie Customs

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  #25  
Old April 10th, 2019, 11:59 PM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

You’ve also got a Transluscent hero merfolk hero and the two transluscent ghost-like figures for 3 more minis.

My customs.
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AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS.
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  #26  
Old April 11th, 2019, 12:03 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

We don’t have a use for a mountain of translucent minis, either. As I said, we don’t need the minis.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
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  #27  
Old April 11th, 2019, 12:33 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
One of the struggles for VC currently is the need to find suitable miniatures. There are many problems with this, from finding things that will be cheap and readily available for as long as possible to getting sculpts and realizing that the scale or size simply doesn't fit with HeroScape.

Here, we have over 70 miniatures that not only are the perfect scale, but come pre-based and are all included in the same box. This last part is especially important in my eyes, as a big inhibitor for people to get into C3V is the need to individually track down each sculpt that they like and then purchase them from wherever they can find. Here, we have an abundance of good miniatures that can easily be acquired.

In addition to this, the sets are all currently cheap...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I would quibble with a few of your points, AK. I don't, for instance, agree that we struggle to find minis. There are far more quality painted minis out there, in the correct aesthetic, than we can use. I certainly don't think we are so desperate for figures that we need unpainted minis. Least of all, fantasy unpainted minis.
My apologies if this section seems to have exaggerated the problems with finding miniatures to you. I stand by the statement that one of the main problems for C3V, SoV, or any other community-led project for this game is finding miniatures that are not only cheap, but easily acquirable.

That last part was intended to be the focus. A big barrier to entry for many people is the need to peruse sites like Troll and Toad, MiniatureMarket, or all of the other websites to find the units (sometimes split amongst these now) that they want. The AotP sets, on the other hand, are much more approachable for people.

I do agree that some of the unpainted minis could really only be used as proxies (like what happened with the Pummelroot Elementals), but the sets have far more to offer than just unpainted miniatures. C3V might not be starving for miniatures, but why not take advantage of an excellent opportunity when it presents itself?

Fantasy-based burnout is real and inevitable with the biggest source of miniatures being D&D and Pathfinder. I'm sure we've all struggled with that before, but that doesn't mean that all fantasy units are bad, especially when this set includes things like phantoms and metallic towers to spice things up. There's a lot of gameplay potential here, from a lot of different designers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
But some of your points are well-taken. I agree it would be wonderful to have a sort of a C3V starter set, as you say, to help people interested in dipping their toes into the water. And the cardboard terrain might be an interesting way for people to start playing, even if we never find it's acceptable in a competitive setting.

We have, of course, identified boxes of minis before. A couple of boxes of Confrontation minis; the Blood of Gruumsh box. Those minis, though, as you correctly point out, are not already based.

I'm not sure what to do with this food for thought. The case in favor is not so great as you make it out to be, but it is also not so weak as it might appear.

Thank you again.
I do think that it's great when C3V can use a box of units, but I view those examples as being very different from this opportunity. The AotP sets present enough content and additional components to be self-sufficient on their own, which makes them particularly suited to fulfilling this task. That, moreso than the lack of a base on some C3V figures, is a better reason for these sets forming a Master Set.

I do appreciate your honest response. Likewise, I think that your negatives aren't nearly as big as the positives, but it's important to look at the prospect from multiple directions.

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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
The biggest obstacle for me is that so much of this is unpainted.

I'd love to use the painted stuff and the transparent stuff, and the terrain, and the cryptoliths, but I don't think unpainted is going to fly with VC. That's a line I'd prefer to keep drawn in the sand.

That doesn't necessarily rule out a Master Set (or maybe we could call it a Game Set like Marvel was), but it does temper the "70 figures" claim that Astro is making. I count 12 painted figures and 12 translucent figures.
The 70 miniatures claim was specifically directed towards the scale of the minis and the fact that they're all somewhat posed to be used for HeroScape, much moreso than most other miniatures on the market. Even the unpainted stuff, like the Pummelroots, has its uses.

Even if only those few 24 figures were used, that's still the size of a Master Set (even larger than some). Which figures are acceptable is extremely reliant on personal opinion, which makes it hard to nail everything down. For example, the black solid minis look perfect as shadows to me, just as much as the translucent pieces like elementals or illusions.

@NecroBlade 's idea for the Porcelain Rhinos also sounds great. There are plenty of other ideas floating about out there, any combination of which can be employed.
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  #28  
Old April 11th, 2019, 12:41 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I would quibble with a few of your points, AK. I don't, for instance, agree that we struggle to find minis. There are far more quality painted minis out there, in the correct aesthetic, than we can use. I certainly don't think we are so desperate for figures that we need unpainted minis. Least of all, fantasy unpainted minis.
My apologies if this section seems to have exaggerated the problems with finding miniatures to you. I stand by the statement that one of the main problems for C3V, SoV, or any other community-led project for this game is finding miniatures that are not only cheap, but easily acquirable.
It's not just my opinion that we don't need more medium sized fantasy painted minis. It's a fact, in that we consider and reject far more minis then we actually use, just because we can afford to be picky. Especially in this genre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112
There are plenty of other ideas floating about out there, any combination of which can be employed.
I'd much rather have one good idea for a mini than a hundred good ones. Regardless, I am deeply concerned that releasing twenty pounds of unpainted plastic will look like twenty pounds of unpainted plastic, even if we come up with a story (This one's a statue! This one's a tree! This one's an illusion!) for each.

Like I said, I don't think that's the most important part of your argument. But the idea that we somehow need this mountain of mostly-unpainted fantasy minis is not correct.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
= =
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  #29  
Old April 11th, 2019, 12:53 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
It's not just my opinion that we don't need more medium sized fantasy painted minis. It's a fact, in that we consider and reject far more minis then we actually use, just because we can afford to be picky. Especially in this genre.

Like I said, I don't think that's the most important part of your argument. But the idea that we somehow need this mountain of mostly-unpainted fantasy minis is not correct.
I must be misunderstanding your stance, then. I wasn't saying that it was your opinion, but rather that even if we do have an abundance of other medium fantasy miniatures, these still pose a good opportunity for the reasons outlined in the rest of the thread. The important bit here to me is how approachable this would be for everyone, not the fact that most of the figures are unpainted or easiest to apply a fantasy theming to.

I would argue that VC does have a need to make an approachable starter set, and these sets are the best opportunity that we have to make one. I'm glad to hear that you agree that your quibbles aren't against the heart of the argument, and I'm sorry for misinterpreting your posts to be focusing on them to the point of downplaying the other benefits.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112
There are plenty of other ideas floating about out there, any combination of which can be employed.
I'd much rather have one good idea for a mini than a hundred good ones. Regardless, I am deeply concerned that releasing twenty pounds of unpainted plastic will look like twenty pounds of unpainted plastic, even if we come up with a story (This one's a statue! This one's a tree! This one's an illusion!) for each.
I was saying that there are plenty of reasons for some of those miniatures to be used, of which any single good one can be chosen. Any of these would be paired with the painted minis, the translucent ones, and the compatible terrain to at the very least make a functional set. Will it be as beautiful as Rise of the Valkyrie? No, I don't think that even the original designers could deliver something like that again. That said, I don't think that the aesthetic of including a squad or two of unpainted minis with the translucent and painted ones is a big enough negative to justify not taking this opportunity.
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  #30  
Old April 11th, 2019, 12:54 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
It's not just my opinion that we don't need more medium sized fantasy painted minis. It's a fact, in that we consider and reject far more minis then we actually use, just because we can afford to be picky. Especially in this genre.

Like I said, I don't think that's the most important part of your argument. But the idea that we somehow need this mountain of mostly-unpainted fantasy minis is not correct.
I must be misunderstanding your stance, then. I wasn't saying that it was your opinion, but rather that even if we do have an abundance of other medium fantasy miniatures, these still pose a good opportunity for the reasons outlined in the rest of the thread. The important bit here to me is how approachable this would be for everyone, not the fact that most of the figures are unpainted or easiest to apply a fantasy theming to.

I would argue that VC does have a need to make an approachable starter set, and these sets are the best opportunity that we have to make one. I'm glad to hear that you agree that your quibbles aren't against the heart of the argument, and I'm sorry for misinterpreting your posts to be focusing on them to the point of downplaying the other benefits.
Small potatoes. You don't owe an apology or an explanation. Thanks for what you've offered here, it's a significant contribution to the hobby.

Cheers!

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
= =
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  #31  
Old April 11th, 2019, 01:05 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Small potatoes. You don't owe an apology or an explanation. Thanks for what you've offered here, it's a significant contribution to the hobby.

Cheers!
I'm glad to see that we were able to come to a better understanding here. Plenty of people have been making great contributions to this idea, and I'm glad to see the ball rolling on some of these concepts.

Likewise!
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  #32  
Old April 11th, 2019, 04:15 AM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Honestly I don't find the idea of unpainted mini's overly appealing. I would rather there be perhaps simplified paint jobs made as an official alternate on the cards.
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  #33  
Old April 13th, 2019, 07:58 PM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

I just thought I'd chime in with something that I don't feel has received enough attention.

I've bought nearly every C3V unit, and they've very rarely released a large box set quite like the Arena sets. The Dungeon Command sets require rebasing, and that is definitely a hassle to the people completely lacking in crafting skills such as myself. The Pathfinder Starter sets and the like only have a few figures (the Arashara Goshiri set had fewer painted figures than the first Arena set!). Only the Confrontation Army boxes are comparable to the Arena sets in providing a large number of figures that don't require a hassle to rebase all in one go like these sets. That's the reason I loved those Army boxes, and why I would love the Arena sets equally. With due respect, and believe me that is an immense amount, I feel like some members of the C3V are undervaluing what a gift getting this many ready to play figures at once is.

While it's true there is a large supply of fantasy figures, getting those figures can be a pain. Finding sufficient supply in stock at the same time is quite difficult to get at a single location. Let's just take one example. In order to buy the basically necessary four squads of pirates, with the four different sculpts of them constantly going in and out of stock I had to place no less than eight different orders across multiple websites and sellers on eBay. And even for unique heroes, it can be tough to find one in stock, let alone multiple different sculpts from the same outlet. I've lost track of the times I check Coolstuff or Troll and Toad and find one new hero figure I need in stock but others I look for are not.

Yes, there are plenty of other miniatures. I don't question the massive availability of usable painted sculpts. But none of them are a fraction as easy to acquire as the Arena sets. There is no large box of ready to play miniatures that are easier to acquire than these Arena boxes. Even using all unique cards for them, the amount of new Army Cards you could get in one fell swoop that need no rebasing hassle is a huge boon.

The ease with which they can be purchased without having to pull out your hair chasing figures down across the web more than makes up for the lack of paint applications on most of them in my opinion. They look perfectly fine to me at least, because the colored plastic is fine, and to my eyes a little bit of color goes a long way. If you use all the sculpts I'd definitely love to be able to get dozens of figures to use from only THREE purchases. Putting three different items in my cart normally isn't even a single complete squad of pirates, and here it would be twice the number of figures from Rise of the Valkyrie! Don't underestimate the appeal of easy shopping. Speaking as someone who has scoured websites for figures far too often, I'm certain someone is more likely to get into C3V from having to buy a couple easy-to-find boxes to get a ton of figures than to have to painstakingly track down single figures across the web.
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  #34  
Old April 13th, 2019, 08:08 PM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Very good perspective on it! Thank you!
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  #35  
Old April 13th, 2019, 10:24 PM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Yes! I think you're exactly right, bellahdoll. I think that is the most important thing here. That what we *don't* have is a Starter Set. And AK proposes the AotP boxes could fill that void. Thank you for your interest in what we do, and thank you for letting us know what you think.

The designs of the Age of Annihilation, and their ACES compatibility with VC
C3V "Easily the best quality classic customs I have ever seen."
= =
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  #36  
Old April 13th, 2019, 11:31 PM
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Re: The Case for a Valhalla Customs Master Set

Instead of trying to convince C3V, you all should start your own group and make customs out of the Arena sets. There are a ton of great designers here and I think a new group designing fantasy customs would be well received.
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