The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Astroking112]

In my eyes, calling Kuahtan an Emperor would be a bit of a theme break. That seems more reserved for Einar, especially given that Kiova is the Empress, and I find it hard to envision there being multiple emperors here.

NB does bring up a good point in that Kiova set the precedent for Einar's Kyries being specifically called out, though, so it would be fitting for him to only work with them if he's supposed to be related to Kiova. I can see why you'd be hesitant to link him solely to them, though, given how pricy they are.

[Scytale]

I would hard no Kuathan as-is. Anything that buffs Raelin is bad.

Thematically, I'd prefer if Leader's Reprisal would only prevent wounds if Kuathan could be placed adjacent.

I think you're overdoing it with Shadow Fury. I get it that you're playing it as a risk-reward thing, but I think that in itself is a mistake. The power is complex and wordy enough with the extra move and extra attack plus adjacency boost; adding in the self-destruct into that is a step too far, and it forces you to make extra attack so good it doesn't feel right (bonus 6 movement with stealth flying plus a stronger attack!).

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I think you're overdoing it with Shadow Fury. I get it that you're playing it as a risk-reward thing, but I think that in itself is a mistake. The power is complex and wordy enough with the extra move and extra attack plus adjacency boost; adding in the self-destruct into that is a step too far, and it forces you to make extra attack so good it doesn't feel right (bonus 6 movement with stealth flying plus a stronger attack!).

How about frenzy? It’s not nearly as powerful as the venocs who get 3 figures to activate for each additional frenzy, but still makes them a swingy unit....though it does remove a special attack from the faction which I’m not sure I like...

Shadow Frenzy
After you take a turn with a Shadow Fiend; roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every other Shadow figure you control adjacent to that Fiend. If you roll a 16 or higher you may take another turn with that Shadow Fiend.

[Lazy Orang]

Class wise, I see absolutely no reason this guy should deviate from the standard of Warrior.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Class wise, I see absolutely no reason this guy should deviate from the standard of Warrior.

I don’t follow...we already have a Kyrie Emporer (Andask)

EDIT: oops lol *insert foot in mouth*

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I don’t follow...we already have a Kyrie Emporer (Andask)

Andask and Kiova still have Warrior as their class.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

How about frenzy? It’s not nearly as powerful as the venocs who get 3 figures to activate for each additional frenzy, but still makes them a swingy unit....though it does remove a special attack from the faction which I’m not sure I like...

Shadow Frenzy
After you take a turn with a Shadow Fiend; roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every other Shadow figure you control adjacent to that Fiend. If you roll a 16 or higher you may take another turn with that Shadow Fiend.

I'm not against that. But what you had was on the right track, just overcooked.

SHADOW FURY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 3 attack die. After attacking with Shadow Fury Special Attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every Shadow figure you control adjacent to that Fiend. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may move that Shadow Fiend up to 3 spaces and attack again by rolling 3 attack dice.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by Scytale

SHADOW FURY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack Special.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 3 attack die. After attacking with Shadow Fury Special Attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every Shadow figure you control adjacent to that Fiend. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may move that Shadow Fiend up to 3 spaces and attack again by rolling 3 attack dice.

Much cleaner!

Now, I may be missing something here (I probably am), but is there a reason it wouldn't go like this?

SHADOW FURY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 3 attack die. After attacking with Shadow Fury Special Attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every other Shadow figure you control adjacent to the attacking Shadow Fiend. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may move that Shadow Fiend up to 3 spaces and attack one additional time using Shadow Fury Special Attack.

(I'm assuming "one additional time" was the intention because (a) the original card couldn't really loop and (b) there's no "may continue as long as" provision.)

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Much cleaner!

Now, I may be missing something here (I probably am), but is there a reason it wouldn't go like this?

SHADOW FURY SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 3.
Choose a figure to attack and roll 3 attack die. After attacking with Shadow Fury Special Attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. Add 1 to your die roll for every other Shadow figure you control adjacent to the attacking Shadow Fiend. If you roll a 12 or higher, you may move that Shadow Fiend up to 3 spaces and attack one additional time using Shadow Fury Special Attack.

(I'm assuming "one additional time" was the intention because (a) the original card couldn't really loop and (b) there's no "may continue as long as" provision.)

"One additional time" confuses people, despite being official 'Scape language. More importantly, this wording was cribbed from Samuel Brown's Fire and Rush Special Attack. "Other" is unnecessary, because a Shadow cannot be adjacent to itself. "The attacking Shadow" doesn't provide any info over simply "that" in this case.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I don’t follow...we already have a Kyrie Emporer (Andask)

EDIT: oops lol *insert foot in mouth*

Honestly.... this guy feels just as much like a Warrior as the majority of Kyrie heroes, more than most. I'd be happiest if he were called Kuahtan the Kyrie Warrior and had Warrior as a class - not seeing why he needs to be something different.

[Just_a_Bill]

Thanks for the responses.

What is the confusion on "one additional time"?

"Attack Special" makes sense on Fire and Rush because that power is 3 attack and then 4. But it doesn't make sense here because this one is always just a straight-up 3. Because of this difference (and for other reasons), I would suggest not using Fire and Rush as the template; in the case of this power, the wording is ambiguous as to whether it's a loop or just one additional time.

The problem with using "that Fiend" is, "that" is missing what writers call its antecedent. There is literally no Fiend mentioned earlier in the text for "that" to be referring to. Aside from being grammatically invalid, it leaves the text with an unsettling feeling that something is missing. (I think you'll find that on existing powers that say "that Whatever," there is a previous use of "Whatever" in the same power for the that to refer back to.)

On the issue of things not being adjacent to themselves, I thought this was something that had to be clarified in text. Maybe that's just an issue for clear-sight ranges? Meaning, you can be within x clear sight spaces of yourself but you cannot be adjacent to yourself, even though when another figure is temporarily in your own space then that figure is adjacent to you... is that all correct?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

What is the confusion on "one additional time"?

We've seen this before, including a previous version of the power in Astroking's thread. In C3V, we had to change Martial La Hire's power name to make it clear he can only attack twice, as testers were often playing him wrong.

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

"Attack Special" makes sense on Fire and Rush because that power is 3 attack and then 4. But it doesn't make sense here because this one is always just a straight-up 3. Because of this difference (and for other reasons), I would suggest not using Fire and Rush as the template; in the case of this power, the wording is ambiguous as to whether it's a loop or just one additional time.

Yeah, that makes sense. And with this wording it's fairly clear it's really one additional, not the possibility of repeating. That's only if he goes with 3 and 3, though.

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

On the issue of things not being adjacent to themselves, I thought this was something that had to be clarified in text. Maybe that's just an issue for clear-sight ranges? Meaning, you can be within x clear sight spaces of yourself but you cannot be adjacent to yourself, even though when another figure is temporarily in your own space then that figure is adjacent to you... is that all correct?

It's only needed for sight ranges, as you say. I believe officially a figure cannot be in clear sight of itself, despite it normally being clarified. We've had this discussion internally before.

Two figures in the same space are not adjacent to each other. Weird, yes, but the rules only talk about adjacency as being next to each other. It's occasionally a problem as people sometimes think it would be clever to use Ghost Walk without Disengage. It really doesn't work because a figure leaves adjacency when it moves into the other figure's space.