Age of Annihilation - Backer Trend and Discussion

[chas]

NYYS,

I wonder if they are going to reveal the rest of the AOA cards before the end. This of course leads to other questions I'm not asking about yet. I will note that on the BGG threads which individually post them for discussion, one or two posters have already said they have proxied and played with some of them...

Technically, I suppose Hasbro could insist they be taken down from there, according to BGG policy as I understand it. Not sure about here, but I'd guess it would be the same thing. Of course, we wouldn't be playing them for profit.

PS: If you ever want to bring your Beantown gang down here to The Big Apple to Scape against mine, I promise not to invite any Yankees!

[nyys]

Originally Posted by chas

NYYS,

I wonder if they are going to reveal the rest of the AOA cards before the end. This of course leads to other questions I'm not asking about yet. I will note that on the BGG threads which individually post them for discussion, one or two posters have already said they have proxied and played with some of them...

I'd be surprised if they did should the campaign not fund. I don't completely dismiss the possibility, but if they did it would make me think that there won't be any Scape going forward, at all. AH holding the rest back would give me something to cling too.

Originally Posted by chas

PS: If you ever want to bring your Beantown gang down here to The Big Apple to Scape against mine, I promise not to invite any Yankees!

Ha! You know, I was down in Long Island back in September for a baseball tourney with my daughter and the drive/ferry wasn't bad at all. I could be convinced to do a Scape trip with enough notice... though the 7 month old may make that difficult for a while yet.

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by nyys

@'Scaper94 , this is definitely the first time I've ever heard of a fanbase preferring less detailed (less than desirable) sculpts. You can count me in that camp as well, I just find it interesting.

I didn't think the sculpts needed to be as detailed either. I thought it was weird that they were trying to save money by not painting the minis, but then they hired seemingly every miniature sculptor in the industry. That couldn't have been cheap. And it just put them further from the original aesthetic.

The detailing (and being pre-assembled) makes them harder to paint. That makes a higher barrier of entry for people who want to paint them, but aren't very skilled. Hasbro is like "We won't paint them and we'll make it harder for you too."

Are there any other miniatures like that in the gaming market, or is this another case of them trying to meet in the middle but letting down both sides?

[chas]

Given that its been pointed out that the original ROTV figures were based on popular media/toy tropes of that time (spies, robots, aliens, samurai, etc.) AOA could be doing the same thing:

Clockwork: Various novels set in animal worlds, and anthropomorphic animal games like Root and many others.

Ironclad: Cyborgs are always popular in SiFic and games.

Brood: From Marvel's X-Men (the spacefaring "Brood") to buggy novels/movies like Starship Troopers.

Lifeborne: Woodland Mages/Druids common in both fiction/movies and games, and magical animal familiars with special powers.

Pirates, Kyrie, and SOTM Hero Stretch Goals: Unfinished Heroscape business and continuations (replicating the Star Wars Cantina scene and similar interspecies SF communities). All Hail CVN!

In addition, and this hasn't been mentioned in any AOA threads yet, it was noted back at or around the time of PulseCon that this incarnation was meant to create a more robust IP for exploitation in other media. A number of people who have complained about all new factions seem to have missed this point. We could have, and may still, see comics/books/films/animation based on them. In fact, these coming out first could help pave the way for another Heroscape offering featuring the new factions and characters.

This may figure in Hasbro's decision to do something with Scape, since they have hired some talent (an actor and artists) looking in that direction for their previous promo efforts. In many cases, the media release of an IP precedes the toys/games based on it.

Tales of Valhalla Volume One:
Sergeant Drake Rockets Into The Ruined City of Laur!

[caps]

Originally Posted by Hogg

The detailing (and being pre-assembled) makes them harder to paint. That makes a higher barrier of entry for people who want to paint them, but aren't very skilled. Hasbro is like "We won't paint them and we'll make it harder for you too."

This is the opposite of what everyone else has been saying. And I would disagree with you also. Miniatures that are flat are hard to paint because it is much harder to know where one color ends and the next begins. And people who are generally into painting find it harder to make simple sculpts look *good* also.

Personally I was quite excited about painting the new minis.

[caps]

In other news I have increased my pledge as promised. I will probably increase it again tomorrow.

[rudyvalentine]

Originally Posted by Hogg

Are there any other miniatures like that in the gaming market, or is this another case of them trying to meet in the middle but letting down both sides?

Unpainted, preassembled miniatures are the norm today in gaming. Maybe not the higher end miniature war gaming where the minis need to be cut, cleaned, and assembled more like models, but in broader table top gaming preassembled and unpainted is the standard.

Look at anything CMON does. Blood Rage, Marvel United, Zombiecide, Cthulhu Death May Die. They have huge kickstarters that typically bring in millions every time and all their minis are just like this. Highly detailed, preassembled, unpainted.

So are any miniatures you get in most other board games. Look at Mice & Mystics, Star Wars Imperial Assault, and Heroquest as examples.

It’s a lot harder to think of modern examples that are pre-painted and the ones I can think of are not good. Betrayal at House on the Hill (2nd edition) comes with 6 pre-painted characters and they look horrible. WizKids has done a lot of preprinted stuff and it’s not great either. Definitely poorer quality than classic scape.

[GamerDad74]

Originally Posted by chas

Given that its been pointed out that the original ROTV figures were based on popular media/toy tropes of that time (spies, robots, aliens, samurai, etc.) AOA could be doing the same thing . . .

In addition, and this hasn't been mentioned in any AOA threads yet, it was noted back at or around the time of PulseCon that this incarnation was meant to create a more robust IP for exploitation in other media. A number of people who have complained about all new factions seem to have missed this point. We could have, and may still, see comics/books/films/animation based on them. In fact, these coming out first could help pave the way for another Heroscape offering featuring the new factions and characters.

I can certainly see the validity of your suggestion above. That was my immediate thought once I started seeing all the daily artwork releases prior to the campaign--they're trying to appeal to fans of a bunch of different games by making factions that look like a bunch of other IPs like you mentioned.

I have two problems with that:

1) I think most of us who play Heroscape play it because it's Heroscape, not some other game. If we wanted to play Marvel or 40K or Redwell or Star Wars then we'd probably play that. And those are fine games, but they're different games. 'Scape was 'scape and that's what people liked.

2) If Hasbro wants to develop some new IP, which is an interesting idea, they should not be doing it on the dollar of all of us. A $9 billion dollar company like Hasbro should be investing it's own dollars into a new IP rather then asking us to foot the bill.

[boromir96]

Originally Posted by Hogg

I didn't think the sculpts needed to be as detailed either. I thought it was weird that they were trying to save money by not painting the minis, but then they hired seemingly every miniature sculptor in the industry. That couldn't have been cheap. And it just put them further from the original aesthetic.

The detailing (and being pre-assembled) makes them harder to paint. That makes a higher barrier of entry for people who want to paint them, but aren't very skilled. Hasbro is like "We won't paint them and we'll make it harder for you too."

Are there any other miniatures like that in the gaming market, or is this another case of them trying to meet in the middle but letting down both sides?

This is subjective I suppose, but in my experience (and chatting with other painters on the discord) less detailed sculpts are harder to paint. The lack of detail and hard lines clearly defining what is what, where a certain color needs to stop etc.. sucks. I’ve been painting 3D prints of Scape figures recently, and while they’re slightly less detailed than the official figures, they’re really good resin prints, and some are just no fun at all to paint. With a more detailed figure you are perfectly free to gloss over details if you wish, paint the tool belt in with the robes or what have you. You don’t have to paint every little detail if you don’t want to.

TLDR; it’s easy to paint a detailed mini very simply, it’s much harder to paint a crappy mini well.

[Grungebob]

Interesting:

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/14/stoc...-and-more.html

“ – The toy maker’s stock slid 5.2% in the premarket following a double-downgrade to “underperform” from “buy” at Bank of America. The move comes after BofA conducted what it calls a “deep dive” on Hasbro’s “Magic: The Gathering” trading card game business. BofA said Hasbro has been overprinting cards and destroying the long-term value of the business”

[caps]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I have a question that I think begs asking. I see a lot of people talking about how horribly they feel this crowdfunding campaign has been run, and are wondering why Hasbro hasn’t done much in the past week to help the final push.

I also see a lot of people talking about increasing their backing up to multiple sets they say they don’t want or need.

My question is: Why? If you are upset at the management of this campaign, why not pull your pledge out instead? Doesn’t it send a stronger message?

I’m not advocating for that, but I’ve been scratching my head about this for a couple of days. The natural tendency when people are unhappy with something, is to not support it at all.

There’s also a real issue of Hasbro possibly misunderstanding the market, and pledging multiple sets that you only pledged for out of desperation seems like it might set Hasbro up with a false impression of the reach of the hobby.

I hope I’m making my point clear.

I have a lot of complaints about how the campaign was run. I am keeping my pledge (and increasing it in the final days) because I believe in the product that we were presented with and the people that designed that product (CVN and the War Council). I want that product to exist, so I keep my pledge. The fact that the limitations that Hasbro put on the campaign appear to have set it up to fail doesn't change that Heroscape is a great game and I think this set deserves to see the light of day.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by caps

I have a lot of complaints about how the campaign was run. I am keeping my pledge (and increasing it in the final days) because I believe in the product that we were presented with and the people that designed that product (CVN and the War Council). I want that product to exist, so I keep my pledge. The fact that the limitations that Hasbro put on the campaign appear to have set it up to fail doesn't change that Heroscape is a great game and I think this set deserves to see the light of day.

Is this the number of sets you would have backed if the campaign was funding well?