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Old May 21st, 2008, 05:48 PM
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Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Entangle seems to have a few interesting twists to it, and I'm interested in everyone's thoughts.

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One thought I had is that Entangle offers the highest probability of success at the beginning of a round:

("Wait, isn't it always a 25% chance of success?")

That depends what you mean by success. There is a 25% chance of removing an unrevealed order marker, but which order marker? If you are interested in removing an actual turn marker (1, 2, or 3), that probability decreases as the round goes on.

Here are the probabilities of removing an actual turn, depending on how many unrevealed order markers the opponent has left:

Four: .25*(3/4) = 3/16 = .1875 (or 18.75%)
Three: .25*(2/3) = 2/12 = .1667 (or 16.67%)
Two: .25*(1/2) = 1/8 = .125 (or 12.5%)
One: Zero (only the X is left)

Caution: This assumes you haven't already had a successful entangle earlier in the round. If you have, then these change depending on what marker you removed.

Still, if you're banking on taking turns away from your opponent, I think you should usually try it earlier in the round.

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Of course, taking the X off Shiori or Spartacus could be helpful, too. And in any case, taking of the X could help you figure out who is probably moving this round.

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A separate point/question: At first i was thinking Entangle was a great way to counter the use of multiple commons. All the order markers are on that card, and as soon as the spiders get in range they are stealing markers. Now I'm thinking that may not be the case, but am having a tough time coming to a conclusion. Thoughts?

Last edited by fomox; June 20th, 2008 at 02:55 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:15 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

In my mind, the Spiders main purpose for existing it to entangle - and yet if you get even a single successful entangle per squad of Spiders I'd say they've just about been worth their points. Everything else - the speedy scoutiness - the 2/2 stats - the pred bonding - it's all gravy, value-added stuff to make 'em even better.

~Aldin, who notes that you can often do better than merely guessing on determining where your opponents' non-X OMs are

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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldin View Post
~Aldin, who notes that you can often do better than merely guessing on determining where your opponents' non-X OMs are
Excellent point. So the odds would be better than these (at each level) to the extent you could guess well.

Question: Do you get to see which one you removed? I think not, so even if you have been successful, you wouldn't necessarily know it.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:39 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

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Originally Posted by fomo6 View Post
Question: Do you get to see which one you removed? I think not, so even if you have been successful, you wouldn't necessarily know it.
I don't think you do. Isn't that the way the Interception glyph works?

Nice thread.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 06:56 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

I like that they are the mirror image of the Venocs (the other 40 point scouts). With a 25% chance, they can take away a turn, instead of taking an extra turn of their own as the Vipers do, although as you point out, it's actually less than 25%- if you assume that someone puts all 4 markers on the same card. It's interesting to me that the X marker might have an all new use as a way to protect against webbing. (If I had an army of all Arrow Gruts and Raelin, I would put all 4 on the gruts instead of the usual 1,2,3 on the squad and X on Raelin.)

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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

The order marker would get revealed normally on that turn. Also removing an order marker from Spartacus will not do anything after the round starts.

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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:22 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

My concern in the whole encircle-esque attack type is always getting the figures engaged in the first place. To me it usually seems like a pretty big pain to try and get them all engaged. My concern is lessened a bit by the spiders though, because their high move should be good enough to get at least one engaged to keep the figure(s) from running while the others move in place.

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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:27 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Menchy View Post
My concern in the whole encircle-esque attack type is always getting the figures engaged in the first place. To me it usually seems like a pretty big pain to try and get them all engaged. My concern is lessened a bit by the spiders though, because their high move should be good enough to get at least one engaged to keep the figure(s) from running while the others move in place.
But remember they are height 2! That means they can't engage anybody who is 2 or more levels higher. This is really a pretty significant disadvantage.

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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:42 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Great thoughts on the Spiders.

I'd like to add we can activate any three Spiders and then attempt the Entangle with another three spiders who are engage with an opponent's figure.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:44 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menchy View Post
My concern in the whole encircle-esque attack type is always getting the figures engaged in the first place. To me it usually seems like a pretty big pain to try and get them all engaged. My concern is lessened a bit by the spiders though, because their high move should be good enough to get at least one engaged to keep the figure(s) from running while the others move in place.
But remember they are height 2! That means they can't engage anybody who is 2 or more levels higher. This is really a pretty significant disadvantage.
It does allow them to move around figures more easily. No other unit can walk right by figures on adjacent hexes that are only two higher without becoming engaged, allowing them to reach more desirable targets or glyphs.
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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:45 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

The spiders would be great if they had Disengage! But I'm fine with their chances of using Entangle. I am hoping we see some more spiders!

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Old May 21st, 2008, 07:47 PM
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Re: Fyorlag Spiders: Entangle discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hex_Enduction_Hour View Post
Great thoughts on the Spiders.

I'd like to add we can activate any three Spiders and then attempt the Entangle with another three spiders who are engage with an opponent's figure.
Wow, is that true? I hadn't even thought about it, but the card does seem to read that way.

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