Battlefields of Valhalla Discussion Thread

[Xotli]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Xotli, thank you! (Especially both of those are mine.)

No worries. That was the easy part.

If I might impose on you for an update that's not easy for me to do ... when combining several maps into a single PDF, I noticed that Dance of the Dryads is set to A4 paper size, which makes it a bit wonky to print on letter size paper. Any chance you could upload a version on letter? It could be an additional file if you don't want to replace the original.

[Dignan]

Here are a couple of thoughts from my viewpoint.

Replacing Judges: If this new system still involves a core of judges, their selection and activity will be the driving force. Having spent 8 years in the BoV, I can tell you that every year it has become harder and harder to keep momentum with judges and find suitable replacements (no offence to anyone). In my early days on the BoV, events were held often, this forum was busy, and tons of people were playing. Over time the game has dwindled along with our player base.

It was a relatively difficult process back in '09 determining who would replace judges from a pool of candidates. In our more recent replacements, finding a pool to talk about has been difficult. It's not just finding the right people, but those people also have to have time and the inclination to help out. I've also seen the "terms" people serve on the BoV shorten over time. People in general just haven't been able to stick with it for very long.

All that to say, I don't hold out much hope for just replacing all the sitting judges with new people and rolling along. I'm sure we could find 5 people to vote alongside myself, but I relatively confident we would shortly find ourselves back here. I think that is just the nature of people playing the game at this point. This is a small subset of players who simply don't play as often or consistently as they did back in the day.

Personally, I think a different structure or system would probably need to be tried out to adapt to this smaller core group of players on these forums.

New System: IF changes are made and a new system is created (whether that is a three man judging team, a rotten tomatoes system, or a larger pool of participants) I think we should put it under a new banner. The BoV represents passing a certain test. It doesn't mean that the map is better than any others. It just means that it made it past the 5 judges at the time. If we make any revisions or changes to the structure, I think we should call it something else. Just to provide clarification of approved maps and processes, etc.

Final Thoughts: To be honest, I'm not certain that the BoV serves much of a function these days. Back in the day, the forums were much more active and many more events were taking place. Tournament directors faced a serious challenge sifting through the map forum to find quality maps for their events. The BoV was a wonderful tool to find maps that would work.

Now, we have a solid core of dire hard gamers on this site. The activity in the events and map forums is significantly lessened. The tournament directors are typically very experienced veteran players who know what they are looking for on the map forum and where to find it. People know what they want for their local events and can spot the maps that they want to use without an outside entity.

I personally still play multiple games a week and focus on competitive play. I love reviewing maps and would have no problem kicking the BoV back up and rolling. I just think that we should probably look to a more sustainable system that will find quality maps and give them recognition at a more reliable pace.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by Xotli

If I might impose on you for an update that's not easy for me to do ... when combining several maps into a single PDF, I noticed that Dance of the Dryads is set to A4 paper size, which makes it a bit wonky to print on letter size paper. Any chance you could upload a version on letter? It could be an additional file if you don't want to replace the original.

Oh of course. Done!

(If you could confirm that it now downloads sized for US Letter, though, I'd be grateful.)

[Sir Heroscape]

@Dignan , thank you for your thoughts. My sentiments exactly. @Tiranx , @TREX and myself have been PMing regarding the structure of a new system for the past couple weeks since this has been discussed. Our goal and plan is to create a new system that will be a valid resource to our tournament directors and meet the current "needs" -if you will- of the community. As our plans take shape and we're ready to "launch" we'd love to come to you (and @Xotli ) for any final revisions or suggestions, but ultimately your support. More than anything, our system we design will need support in order to take off and that support will likely come from tournament directors who see the system as a worthy resource.

[mad_wookiee]

I'll throw in my two cents, although I've been away for long enough that they may only be worth 1.5. Speaking personally, judging was great as long as we had an active competitive scene in our area. Once that dried up, frankly, there just wasn't an impetus to design new maps or do as much playing. I'd intended to step down some time ago, but it seemed like we were always short handed, and as Dignan mentioned, filling the gaps kept getting harder and harder. So I didn't say anything, and then the thread activity sort of died down, and here we are a few years later.

So where to go? From my perspective, I think the BoV is a great resource for a certain kind of event. I think the gauntlet that a map had to run in order to make it in was something valuable. We always intended this to be a repository of the best of the best, and I think it was that. What is now? Well, to be honest, I'm not sure. Customs have become the new heroscape - if I were to go to an event today, I'm not sure what I'd find there. I have no idea what the current meta looks like, as I never got into customs beyond tricking out some terrain pieces. Even as we were winding down, it was clear that some of the maps were showing their age.

We resisted certain changes, with good reason I think - uncapped pillars was always a point of contention, for example, but we tried to stick as closely to rules as written as we could. The point to me was always that someone could show up to an event and know exactly what to expect - no house rules, just pure Heroscape. And it was a great ride while it lasted. I was even good with the D&D scape, because it came in a box with Heroscape on the front and anyone could walk into a store, pick it up, and join in. One of my favorite tournament episodes ever was the event where we managed to stick clancampbell with a D&D starter as a prize - not sure if he ever played it, but we all had a great laugh and he took it in stride.

So where to go from here? I wish I could be a part of it. My boys are older now and don't play any more, but even if they did, we don't have the local scene that always made things feel exciting and fresh. This game isn't so great solo, I have to say. Regardless, I read some of the ideas you're throwing around and they sound great. I just don't know if they sound like the BoV. It was a function of its time, I think, and I'm not sure that time is now. I would encourage you to start fresh, focus on what the community needs now, and build the best maps that you can to meet that need. That's all there is to it, really.

I still pop in from time to time, mostly when I see something show up in my notifications, which hasn't happened in a while. Much as I miss this, I don't see it becoming a regular part of my gaming world again any time soon, so please take this as my official resignation as a BoV judge. Whatever you decide to do, keep the community first - try to do something that means something to Heroscapers everywhere and not something that only makes a few people happy - and you'll do well.

'Scape on.

[Dad_Scaper]

Hey buddy. The new stuff is pretty cool. See if you can make the trip to Savage on 11/19. We got our prize support in the mail today, and it's sweeeet.

Good to see you checking in.

[lefton4ya]

I appreciate @Dignan and @mad_wookiee 's comments (maybe we can also hear from @fomox ). So, not to let this die down, can we start figuring out and actually using an updated system soon then. Basically, an idea is just add public comments and votes (either pass/fail, 1-5 stars, or a % rating) and the Judges factoring those into their own reviews to see whether something passes. Maybe the remaining judges' votes count as one vote each and public score's count as 2 votes and, with a public score of 50% count as one pass and one fail, and score of 75% count as 2 passes. Just putting some practical ideas out there to get the ball rolling quick, but yet maintain quality.

[Xotli]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Oh of course. Done!

(If you could confirm that it now downloads sized for US Letter, though, I'd be grateful.)

Looks good, Ty.

Thx for taking care of it so quickly.

[Sheep]

Question: Blackroot uses 2 random treasure glyphs but I've noticed that the online community has used the two glyph locations as regular glyphs. Is this ok as far as gameplay goes?

Edit: It's also possible that I've mis-seen and they actually do use the two treasure glyphs.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

Question: Blackroot uses 2 random treasure glyphs but I've noticed that the online community has used the two glyph locations as regular glyphs. Is this ok as far as gameplay goes?

Edit: It's also possible that I've mis-seen and they actually do use the two treasure glyphs.

I've played it both ways and it's worked fine. Personally I prefer Treasure Glyphs, but that's mainly because I like the push towards Unique Heroes. But it's a great map either way, so whichever float the boat for what you want.

[Dignan]

Originally Posted by heroscaper2010

Question: Blackroot uses 2 random treasure glyphs but I've noticed that the online community has used the two glyph locations as regular glyphs. Is this ok as far as gameplay goes?

Edit: It's also possible that I've mis-seen and they actually do use the two treasure glyphs.

It should be alright. I think the map is a little more balanced with the use of treasure glyphs, but it should still play fine.

[fomox]

A lot of things to respond to here; rather than hit each point here's my overall impression:

I think tournament directors get their map ideas from a variety of places. I'm not sure there are any people putting on tournaments who are not already aware of this and other map ranking projects or threads of talented map makers.

So I think there is less demand for this sort of thing than there used to be (for the same reasons there is less "supply" from qualified volunteers). I think some of the ideas suggested here seems so different from the BoV that it makes little sense to still call it the BoV. Better to just make a new thread and, as it succeeds (or not) it will be used (or not).

As far as the BoV is concerned: I'm happy to have it continue. My work/family constraints will always mean flurries of activity and long pauses of inactivity. I think that actually works fine for the pace of new maps that are BoV-nominated.

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(At Gencon, there are space and terrain constraints. "What map do we have that uses only set X and set Z, is small enough, and that we haven't used recently". If the only criteria was 'is this a fair and fun map', we'd have a lot more flexibility.
If you're aware of a great map that's never been played at Gencon, let us know. It may be that it is too large or uses terrain that we have little of. Or it may actually be that we haven't seen it.)