The Book of RX-78-2 Gundam

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

I'm not entirely following what you're asking/suggesting Yoda, sorry.

Super Strength 'Ignores any special power that gives automatic shields to destructible objects' according to the rule book. Which I assume actually means something like 'when attacking a destructible object, this dude ignores any automatic shields added to that object's defense roll' or something like that and not that Super Strength figures can ignore all of a special power as long as part of the power can potentially give automatic shields to DOs. Hasbro was bad at wording things

So normal or special attack makes no matter to Super Strength people, they'll ignore auto shields either way.

If we gave the Gundam an auto-shield versus normal attacks, that would make the power slightly worse. Since it still does nothing against anything with Super Strength but would now also do nothing against special attacks from non-Super Strength people. Which like I guess would make it slightly less swingy by being useless against slightly more stuff?

Was just looking for a way to address your earlier comment about being extra strong vs. low level teams. If the low level (ie. non-SS) team had a SA, then at least they have an option available to them. Doesn't help though if the rules were pretty open ended to include all forms of attack by a figure with SS and not just those that actually invoke the use of said SS. In the end, auto-wound powers will get past the auto-shield, so non-SS teams can try to find one of those. The Joes have Rip Cord already that can help deal with a VDO. So I'm fine with the auto-shield here. It is a big giant mech suit after all, I wouldn't want to see it go down to a whiff.

[IAmBatman]

In a superhero focused game, it makes total sense to me that someone with super strength would have a better shot at taking down a big robot thing. I like this use and how it brings an obscure official tule into more relevance. Probably worth an FAQ or something, but maybe it’ll help us all remember that rule more?

If Gunny here feels too tough against the non-SS set, I think adding in a special attack weakness would be a good tweak, yeah.

Liking where things are at here.

[Lord Pyre]

I’m definitely less interested in these guys if they have a glaring weakness to most of our designs which just makes them swingier and weaker. Yeah I get that Superman punching one would do more damage than batman punching one, but both Batman and Hulk punch Superman exactly the same even though Hulk would get around defenses easier. I dunno I guess I just hate exploiting a rule I think is dumb to begin with. I’d rather just not have any auto shields then this thing that’s not even in a card.

[IAmBatman]

It’s not a glaring weakness. If anything the auto shield is a situational bonus. The mech is plenty sturdy without it.

And using an existing, official rule isn’t the same as “exploiting” it.

[Lord Pyre]

Yeah I guess it’s not technically exploiting. I just hate rules that are fringe cases not spelled out on cards. Like if they had a power saying that they have less defense against super strength, great. But these guys being the one draftable thing that a power that doesn’t exist on any cards applies to just feels extremely tricky. Like I would want to mention that to every single play tester that signs up, and in general if you have to clarify something every time you play something I would say it needs to be worded better.

I just REALLY hate that rule

[IAmBatman]

I think it's only fringe because it doesn't get used, like various levels of height advantage and falling damage. To me, that's a reason to use the interactions more, though, so they're highlighted and learned.

[Lord Pyre]

Falling is at least intuitive, and not tied to a single draftable card. You fall down, you get hurt. Okay. You teach that along with movement rules when teaching. I’m never going to teach this rule unless the gundam is drafted, in which case why didn’t we just put it on the card?

Like I think it’s inherently bad game design on Hasbro’s part, and something we could fix. If I’m the only one sure, but I’m adamant that it’s not a good rule.

[Yodaking]

I look at the theme like this. When someone with SS punches another living being they hold back just a little bit cause it is still a living being they are hitting. Even a villain might have respect for their foe and not want to kill them at that moment. They just need to knock the person out. But when someone with SS punches a non-living thing (ie. a DO), then they don't feel the need to hold back any and just try to destroy it completely in a terrifying and intimidating show of their power. Thus overcoming the auto-shield protection that being a non-living and rock solid thing provides.

[Lord Pyre]

The rule isn’t even specific to melee, so Joe Fixit’s machine gun has armor piercing rounds just because he’s strong, so it’s thematically broken to begin with.

[IAmBatman]

Leopardon or whatever is going to have it as well, so that's two in progress now, with more likely to come. I imagine auto shields are something that'd be fairly common on the bigger, more warlike draftable VDOs. Draftable DOs and VDOs are a relatively new thing still, so naturally it hasn't come up for draftable units much yet.

Edit: If someone wants to put the time and effort into changing it to only affect normal, melee attacks, I'm OK with that.

[Lord Pyre]

Yeah YK, I’m not as worried about the theme as I am the the fact that it’s completely unintuitive. Like I said we’d have to explain it every time someone tested it. Had we not had this conversation I wouldn’t have tested with it, since it’s never really been applicable for 100+ designs.

We could adjust the rule to be more thematic, but then at that point why not just remove it and just spell it out in the pilot power? That’s basically all I want.

[Arch-vile]

Personally I really like that this gives a mechanical use for Super Strength, as normally the symbol is just for flavor. I'd just add a FAQ since it is an easily overlooked rule.