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  #37  
Old October 19th, 2021, 04:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - WAIT for Public Playtestin


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  #38  
Old November 13th, 2021, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Public Playtesting

Cool, looks like they were loving the design! Got him in the hands of Redstang and Eric already, so I'll wait for their results before bumping any points. Two big wins, but sounds like there were some mitigating factors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toyhandle
NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman (Occult)

Map: Sauronís Eyrie
Units:
Batman, Etrigan, Deadman, Constantine, Zatanna and Question (1200)
Sam, Frankenstein, Sauron, Swamp Thing II, Werewolf (Uncommon) 1200pts
Results:
This game, pretty much everything went in my favor. I won initiative every round after the first, and had a bunch of big attack rolls. Deadman and Question were averaging 3-4 skulls every attack. I had a diverse range of Princes, Magicians, Investigators and Vagabonds, so I always had something to use with my rolls. Pretty much only rolled blanks when I was near opponents, and it was usually when they were on their last life.
The turn efficiency and Auto-Wounds were overwhelming for the Creatures. Never had to really use Constantine. The coolest part was baiting Frankenstein with Etrigan, who was adjacent to Question and Batman. Frankenstein targeted Etrigan, Question released a smoke pellet, Etrigan moves to safety, and Batman engages Frankenstein, who attacks Batman, who moved to his card. Sadly, Swamp Thing then one-shotted Question, so I lost my next turn, and didnít get to remove an OM from Frankenstein.
There were a lot of decisions that hurt the Creatures. Swamp Thing should have put a plant on my start zone space inside the castle at the start of the game, so I would not have had castle access. Having access allowed Etrigan to face off against Sauron, and Sauron couldnít use the Lava against Etrigan. Sauron also moved too close to my figures, so he was able to get ganged up on, instead of carrying Etrigan closer to his figures.
The Creatures should probably have had a different character, like Swamp Thing, start in the castle, and have Sauron start next to Frankenstein, so he could carry Frankenstein to castle height. It ended up being that Frakenstein wandered into the castle alone, having trouble getting engaged and getting clear sight on his fellow creatures, and needing to retreat.
Overall, Iíd say that this win is due to the cohesiveness of team Batman, and some strategic fumbles from the Creatures.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

Map: Mountain Spring
Units:
Batman, Goro, Wolfsbane, Phantom Stranger 1100 points
Godzilla and Moleman 1100pts

Results:
Iíd argue that this was kind of unbalanced, in that I had a cohesive 1100pt team, and he had 100 wasted points with Mole Man. Godzilla was played very well. The unblockables failed Splash, so maybe it would have been better to avoid moving, for extra chances to roll 10 dice. Also might have been better to go right for Batman, since that would waste my order markers and limit my turns. When he attacked Batman on R3T1, Batman couldnít move to his card, because then he couldnít use Occult Investigations, so he was in real danger.
Goro was a star, having height and wounding on his first attack most of the time. I rolled two shields twice after Goro died, as well as two blanks when there was nothing near Batman to wound, so there were several turns where nothing happened.
In the end, Batman and Phantom Stranger was too powerful a combo for poor Mole Man.

Spoiler Alert!
Spoiler Alert!

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY:
Really big wins for Batman, but I do consider the Creatures to have not been played to their potential, as well as some great luck and a solid team for Batman. The second game, I already mentioned that I had basically 100 extra points on him, and its possible that if Godzilla had stood still and focused on one target, he could have taken the game.
I do think that the FF with Rubber Wrap and Auto-Wounds from Torch, or the X-Men with Optic Blasts from Cyclops and an adjacent Jean Grey to lock down Batman would give him a really hard time, and I wouldnít advocate for a point change until he is run against teams like that.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Probably my favorite version of Batman. He really ties the faction together. From the classes he synergies with, thereís so many options, I had a little trouble deciding what to run with. Etrigan, Goro and Hellboy are the heavy-hitters, Question can remove order markers and protect figures with smoke pellets, Zatanna is generally good, and can turn Occult Investigations to blanks, with a little help from Constantine if needed (Didnít get to do that, but wanted to). Deadman is normally pretty lackluster, but intangibility makes him a good OM hub, which allows Batman to move to his card without losing Occult Investigations, and nobody wants to be adjacent to Deadman when Constantine and Phantom Stranger are around.
Very powerful card, but not impossible to counter. When shields start becoming meaningless, or Batman is too far from the fray for blanks to mean anything, his vulnerability begins to show.

Splashís thoughts:
Batman is a very solid leader piece of what is essentially Justice League Dark. With the level of turns he gets you don't even need to get him engaged, but if he is you get 3 turns and he can poof away. It's super fun to finally see the whole "Gordon turns his head and sees nothing" power on a card. As far as the games go, I think bad rolls, maps, teams, and choices all factor in; regardless, Batman's team won by A LOT both games. The first game was in the Eyrie, so clear sight for my Creatures just wasn't happening and I had to retreat. The second saw Goro largely take out Godzilla himself with Shokan Pummel. Team Occult Batman should probably just be run against FF or something in the next tests to get a better view, but with these results, even if they were flukes, Batman is a really good card, with the option for autowounds and multiple turns, he could be bumped by 5 or 10 points at least. He should also be run against Range, cause I didn't really bring much.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #39  
Old November 14th, 2021, 08:53 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Public Playtesting

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batman Occult

Version tested:
Spoiler Alert!


Army Test
Map: Custom Map - Suburban Showdown
Units: Hellyboy 340, Lobster Johnson, Zatanna 220 w/30 pts in spells, Batman VS Kingpin 220, Radioactive Man, Winter Soldier, Wizard, Klaw
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Custom Map - Royal Wakandan Forest
Units: Batman, Zatanna 220, Etrigan, Wolfsbane VS Luke Cage, Ronin, Songbird, Moon Knight 150, Daredevil 200
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: 230 seems right, he helps breath life into Investigator builds.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: This is my favorite Batman that I've played. He does a lot of interesting stuff. Like all Batman designs he can be a little soft with 4 life but Urban Legend lets him get out of trouble and drop in at a better spot and possibly do a wound. Creature of the Night also helps to keep him alive, avoided clear line of sight attacks and powers. It was very helpful in game 1, he was able to avoid Klaws Sonic Disruption, Wizard's double ranged attack and wasn't selected as Winter Soldier's mark. Occult Investigations is a fun power but you leave your turn to chance. A few times in both games the outcome of the roll was exactly what I didn't want. I will definitely play this Batman again. No recommendations for changes to the design.
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  #40  
Old November 14th, 2021, 08:56 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Public Playtesting

Looking good! Glad to see the bad luck side of things to balance out Toy and Splash's results. Hopefully we can get Redstang's results soon and move this guy forward.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #41  
Old November 15th, 2021, 09:22 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Public Playtesting

Awesome, thanks! 3-3 in public testing so far, so I'm pretty happy. The glass cannon aspect is a trade off for the offensive efficiency he can bring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redstang
Quote:
Originally Posted by redstang
Please forward your current write up. Would like to playtest tomorrow. Thanks!

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: BATMAN (OCCULT)



Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Team A: Hellboy II, Detective Chimp, Batman Occult, Zatanna 220, Spells: Temperance, Vapors, Lord of the Flies – 1000 Points

Team B: Deathstoke II, Arrowette, Ravager 185, Ravager 210, Wondergirl 240 – 1000 Points

Game Summary
Batman's Occult Investigation Roll Results: #1: 1 Skull and 1 Blank; #2: 1 Skull and 1 Blank; 2 Shields - 1 changed to a blank by Mistress of Magic; #3: 3 skulls; 2 Skulls and 1 Blank - 1 Skull changed to a Blank with Mistress of Magic; #4: 3 Shields; #5: 2 Skulls; #6: 2 Shields and 1 Skull; #7: 2 Shields and 1 Blank; #8: 1 Shield and 1 Blank. Overall Batman was able to place 7 auto wounds with Occult Investigations, 2 of which were created by Mistress of Magic. The auto wounds were a nice way to get around Ravager's defense without placing Batman in harm's way of Ravager's auto wounds.



Batman avoided a flanking strike from Ravager by using Urban Legend after defending an attack against Wonder Girl. When came back he was able to hit an auto wound skull on Deathstroke. Creature of the Night also came in handy against Wonder Girl's lasso.



Chimp only found the X and got drunk once during the game so he was definitely helping stack bonuses.


Zatanna was able to cast Temperance and Batman was able to activate Chimp, Hellboy, and Himself to take full advantage of Temperance in a single round.

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):

Team A Won: Batman with 1 life remaining, Zatanna All Life Remaining, Detective Chimp Full life remaining


___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: City Park
Units: Team A: Batman Occult, Etrigan, Zatanna 220, Deadman, Spells: Temperance and Hypnotize – 985 Points

Team B: Gorilla Grodd 285, Captain Cold II, Girder, Mirror Master 160, Tar Pit – 985 points

Game Summary
Batman's Occult Investigation Roll Results: 2 Shields; 1 Skull and 1 Blank.


Batman was wiped out on the first turn of the 2nd round in this one. Gorilla Grodd closed in on him quickly, rolled 5 skulls to Batman's 0 Shields to Batman's destruction. Given the early exit, Batman was nearly a non-factor here. This is a weakness for this Batman. If he would have at least blocked two of those 5 skulls, he would have been able to avoid a follow up attack from Grodd by using Urban Legend, but he never got that chance. And without a dodge ability, he seems susceptible to heavy hitters. It makes paying attention to your opponent's OM placement crucial. Deadman fell in the 3rd round. Zatanna and Etrigan fell in the 4th round. Once Batman was gone, this team build lost all synergy and the game quickly deteriorated for them.


Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes):

Team B won: Girder 3 life remaining, Tarpit 4 life remaining, Mirror Master 4 Life remaining.



THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Not sure what to think here. Definitely draftable, really like the design, but as far as cost goes, I'm undecided as to whether a 10 point reduction is needed or not. Batman has great protection against non-adjacent attacks, but can fall quickly to adjacent attacks without a dodge ability as seen in the second test. If your opponent is smart, they will send their heavy hitter after Batman once he is committed to an engagement in the open field to get that third die to roll. Urban Legend is a nice way to get away from subsequent attacks, but one big hit will take him down. Pairing Zatanna 220 with him was really fun because of Mistress of Magic. Also, putting Hellboy and Batman on the same team with synergy is just plain awesome.


GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Feels a little Swingy/glass cannon-ish. In my builds with Zatanna, in order to take advantage of those possible extra blanks from Mistress of M
agic, I needed to keep Batman up front and fairly involved. In that situation, he is susceptible to adjacent attacks from other team's heavy hitters, but the payoff is real. I guess if you're Batman you need to decide how to approach the tactical side of things depending on your opponent's team build. Are you okay with taking double or triple turns or do you need those auto wounds to get around special defenses?

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #42  
Old November 15th, 2021, 09:23 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - Public Playtesting

That's two big wins, two solid losses, and a close to medium win and close loss in public playtesting. I'm feeling good moving forward here.

I propose we move to Final Editing.

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  #43  
Old November 15th, 2021, 09:35 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

Yea
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  #44  
Old November 15th, 2021, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

yea


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  #45  
Old November 15th, 2021, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

Yea
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  #46  
Old November 15th, 2021, 10:23 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

Yea
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  #47  
Old November 15th, 2021, 11:49 AM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

Yea

This guy is just too cool.
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  #48  
Old November 15th, 2021, 12:07 PM
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Re: The Book of Batman (Occult) - VOTE for Final Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Yea

This guy is just too cool.
Yeah, I think he's probably going to go down as one of my favorite LDs. This passes!

@Ronin @Karat @SirGalahad any eyes on the wording would be much appreciated.

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