Tide of Iron info from FFG's website

[Teamski]

Originally Posted by jbbnbsmith

Wow, this game looks SOOOO good to me. It seems to have enough elements of Squad Leader to scratch that grognard itch, but enough eye candy and simplicity of gameplay to actually find someone who is willing to give it a go.

Just what I need, another expandable game system! I need to start getting some game time in with the ones I already own before I can really justify this purchase (I've only played Battlelore twice, and I haven't even play one game with the pacific theater expansion for MM44, and it's been about three months since I've played Heroscape!).

I've read the reviews at BGG, but was just wondering if anyone here has played it yet. I'd especialliy like to get some feedback from someone who is/was into Squad Leader or other "heavy" war games.

I got the game for the exact same reasons you mention. I wish I had somebody to play with, though! My feeling from what I have heard, is that all of the key decisionmaking that you would have in Squad Leader is in the game. I played a lot of SL in my time and I still have all of games. I know that they are coming out with advanced rules for the game, so I hope it gets pretty close to the complexity of SL, specifically armor rules with F/S/R armor values..... If I were you, grab the game. For $55, its a true value.....

-Ski

[jbbnbsmith]

Originally Posted by Teamski

I got the game for the exact same reasons you mention. I wish I had somebody to play with, though! My feeling from what I have heard, is that all of the key decisionmaking that you would have in Squad Leader is in the game. I played a lot of SL in my time and I still have all of games. I know that they are coming out with advanced rules for the game, so I hope it gets pretty close to the complexity of SL, specifically armor rules with F/S/R armor values..... If I were you, grab the game. For $55, its a true value.....

-Ski

Have you played it at all yet, even if just soltaire? Just about every review I've seen has been good, but I'd especially like to get your feedback since we seem to have a similar gaming background and have the same expectations/hopes about this game.

I'm sure I'll end up getting it, but I may wait until Christmas rolls around. I usually buy myself a few games each year and then let people in my family "give them" to me. With all of the new HS stuff on the way this summer and fall, hopefully I'll get back into playing that a bit more regularly.

I did manage to play a few games of battlelore and MM44 recently, which was nice.

Anyway, let me know what you think once you've gotten a few game turns under your belt.

[jbbnbsmith]

Since it looks like it will be a while before wave 7 shows up in retail stores, I went ahead and bought this game. Hopefully it will come by the end of the week. Can't wait to give it a spin.

[jbbnbsmith]

I got this game this week and played the first scenario solo last night to get a grip on the rules. My initial observations:

BIG BOX - I guess I need to buy the expansions to fill it up. Either that or use the TOI box for my MM44 stuff.

The squad bases - Time will tell how this little gimmick holds up. Everytime I pull a figure out of the base I feel like I'm going to rip his feet off. I actually started using a very small flat head screwdriver to snap the figures into the base. And while some people have complained that the figures are too small, I actually think they are a bit too big. It's very hard to fit 3 squads into one hex, especially when you start including activation markers, pinned markers, and fox holes. Sometimes I wondered if this game would have been better off using blocks or even (gasp!) cardboard counters.

Map Board - I LOVE maps and this board hits the spot. It really reminds me of Squad Leader, which for me is a good thing. As others have commented, the map boards are very sturdy and fit together very well.

Other Components - LOTS of counters, overlays, and small dice. I've heard people complain about the dice being too small, but I think they are a perfect size, especially when you are rolling a lot all at once. I was expecting to see dice the size of the Pirates of the Spanish Main ones. The quality of the components are first rate, and the art work is very well done.

Rule Book - The rule book is similar to MM44 or even Battlelore in terms of reading level (easy to read, fairly large type, lots of examples and pictures) I did find myself doing a lot of flipping through the rules during my first play, but thankfully there is a good index for the rules, or else it would have taken me a long time to find some things.

Game play - Although my first game took a looong time to play ( a combination of learning the rules, playing solo, and many distractions) I think I am really going to like this game. For those who compare it to MM44, it really is a completely different game. I don't see it taking the place of MM44, but it is a game that meets another need. I loved Squad Leader, but it used to take me a while to work through all the rules, one scenario at a time. Although this game includes almost the same level of tactical detail, it plays much more smoothly and faster in my opinion. This is a game that I could pick back up after a few months and quickly get back into it as opposed to feeling like I had to start almost from square one. There are plenty of decisions to make and things to balance out. the use of command points adds a resource element to the game while also rewarding good game play. The cards work very well and are sort of like MM44's tactical cards (I think that's the right term) but nothing like the command cards. The ability to move 3 units per turn (with multiple turns in a round) keeps both players in the game all the time, but also keeps the game moving along.

The board does get pretty cluttered with stuff over the course of the game with all of the little bookkeeping markers and such, but it isn't too messy (except if there are three squads in one hex as I mentioned before)

I hope to play again tonight to seek from revenge on behalf of the poor germans. But it seems like it was a good purchase for me.

[spleek]

I have played ToI about 8 time now and I have to admit that it scratches an itch that HS cannot quite reach. There seems to be more angles to approach the scenarios. I dont really see the game shining with more than 2 players like HS does. With the 2 sided scenarios I dont believe there is enough different decisions for a 3rd and 4th player to make. The components seem top-notch and the figure bases break in nicely to make setup more enjoyable.

I dont believe HS will ever be replaced, but my core group of gamers keep wanting to drag this out instead. I think once the new wears off we will be right back to HS.

Any others playing this regularly?

[Dreaded Gazebo]

I played Tide of Iron once several weeks back and just picked up a copy last week. Played around with it a bit over the weekend to get more familiar with the rules and get my pieces broken in a bit.

Gotta say that this game rocks. This, Shogun and Yspahan are my three favorite new board games over the past year. I really like the line Tide of Iron has found between simulation and game. It sacrifices a bit of realism here and there in order to make it a more entertaining game and it works.

What I like is the sheer number of options you have available to you on any given turn. I think there will be few situations where there's a truly obvious move. Normal and suppressive fire alone is brilliant; you can either shoot to kill an enemy or use suppressive fire to disrupt its turn (and possibly remove it from the game). Then you can combine fire from multiple units which makes you weigh exhausting units to combine their fire into a single shot or activate each individually. Mortars, vehicles, officers, unit specialization... it all comes together nicely. The "feel" of the game is dead on and it just unfolds like you'd expect.

There's a lot of discussion on other forums about scenario balance. My take is that a scenario doesn't need to be balanced to be fun. For me the fun is seeing a battle play out; winning isn't my primary concern. You can easily tell at a glance which side has the upper hand. Knowing that it's fun to be the underdog and do the best you can in the face of overwhelming odds.

Brilliant game. It's even fun to just break out and play around with by yourself. There's no hidden information in the game so you just make the best moves possible and watch the battle play out. I also feel the four player game works fairly well, certainly better than other two player games that claim to support multiple players. I'll likely be playing this for quite some time.

My only complaint is that my American figures don't fit into the bases very well (German figures are generally fine). It takes a fair amount of effort to snap them in and out. I'm sure that'll get better with time though.

[mrbistro]

I ordered this yesterday from Thought Hammer and cannot wait for it to get here. I wasn't sure about it at all, but the video sold me. I've been wanting something to replace Squad Leader, but nothing as complicated. This looks perfect. When I saw the part in the video featuring map customization, I squealed with nerd glee.

[jbbnbsmith]

I'm glad to see this thread active again. TOI is a great game. I especially have grown to love the way the various cards can be used to capture the feel of a specific scenario.

Lots of depth and the game rewards good tactics. I can't wait to see more and more scenarios. I also hope that future expansion do not introduce any greater complexity, but rather just more variety.

[mrbistro]

Originally Posted by jbbnbsmith

I also hope that future expansion do not introduce any greater complexity, but rather just more variety.

Yes, I'm rather excited by the potential of the expansions. The African one coming out soon should be nice, as would a pacific theatre expansion, but I am especially excited by the prospects of an eastern front expansion.

But maybe I should save my enthusiasm for just playing the main game first.

[jcb231]

I recently sold Memoir '44 for a hefty profit, and have begun looking for a game to replace it. How does this compare, now that more folks have it and have played it for a while?

[mrbistro]

Originally Posted by jcb231

I recently sold Memoir '44 for a hefty profit, and have begun looking for a game to replace it. How does this compare, now that more folks have it and have played it for a while?

Well I have yet to play it, but from everything I've read it's more like a simplified Squad Leader than a more complex Memoir '44. The Geek has lots of good write-ups, the Vasel review being particularly good.

On the truck for delivery! I'm so excited, but of course it's coming right in the middle of Heroscape Day weekend, so I probably won't even be able to touch it until Sunday.

[spleek]

I cant say enough good about ToI. Now I have an Army buddy that likes to point out the facets that are less than accurate, but I just smile and point out that it is just a GAME not a simulation. I can see where the expansions couls add alot but after 12 or so plays I still am getting the hang of using my cards effectively.

The scenarios are fun and different enough to make the game feel/flow differently from one to the next. There are several user-created content at the ToI homepage, I have played a couple of those. I would encourage others to do so as well, as they need to be rated/approved to go into the permanent archives. The support is excellent as well, just post a question at the home forums and/or BGG.com and Mike Z will be on it!

I am breaking out the 'scape this weekend though, I am ready to put my Marro army to use!!!!!