Shadowking's Customs v.2 - 02/18/24 Bike Ninja!

[Shadowking]

OK, the updated card for Queen Penthesilia - I applied basically all the changes I mentioned above and also gave her 1 extra life to compensate for her loss of range and being forced to get up-front to get value in pretty much all situations. Overall, though, I think this iteration feels better/smoother? She also lost 1 range on her Shout to make both that and her Strike boost have the same spacing.

[Sherman Davies]

I like this Trojan/Amazon faction you're developing here. The Irregulars' Royal Strategic Bonding is simple and novel. I normally like a little more decision making in Strategic Bonding powers, but I suppose the decision here lies more in which hero to bond with, or even draft. Nice work!

[Shadowking]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

I like this Trojan/Amazon faction you're developing here. The Irregulars' Royal Strategic Bonding is simple and novel. I normally like a little more decision making in Strategic Bonding powers, but I suppose the decision here lies more in which hero to bond with, or even draft. Nice work!

Thanks - glad to hear it! Haven't had a chance to test the new versions of them just yet, but in the meantime, here's a couple of new ones (I am not at all confident about their points costs/exact stats):



(there are two figures in the Aspects of Cinder squad; Lord Cinder is an Aasamir figure #15 from the Monsters of the Multiverse set)

Lord Cinder tags Mindless figures so he can also use his Consuming Heat to benefit from the deaths of friendly Fire Elementals; if the point totals were big enough perhaps you could try some sort of Kurrok & Fire Elementals build that also used these guys? It seems a bit counterintutive on the surface that the Aspects of Cinder can respawn but also have 2 life each, but I kinda like what that does to the reliability of Lord Cinder's healing (i.e lessens it despite overall making the Aspects a bit stronger) and also goes well with "slingshotting" them into aggressive positions with his lava tiles placed in your back lines - where they are then more likely to hold out for a bit longer in position to get more attacks off before they die and have to be respawned.

[Shadowking]

I am pretty sure Lord Cinder has way too much threat range at 6 move & 5 range with flying; I've adjusted down to 5 move 4 range (which cuts that threat range down by 2) but that still might be too much, I'm not sure. I also think the Aspects can rebirth too easily at 17+ (20% chance) so 18+ is probably better for their From the Ashes ability (15% chance), I could see it even needing to be adjusted down to 19 but with Lord Cinder also being a bit less easy to escape with his reduced move 18 might be the right choice.

[yamissflash]

The multi-life squad regen/healing trade off is interesting.

I’m concerned that placing molten lava tiles in general is abusable against all-melee armies (without lava resistance). If you have a space in or near a start zone that is only connected by two spaces, in three turns Lord Cinder could set up & get behind a molten lava moat and then have his Aspects do all the fighting. When they die he can respawn them, so he wouldn’t need to leave his lava fortress. You would need a 20 to even attempt to attack him.

In a less extreme scenario he could simply wall off a choke point. Although it is a kinda slow process.

Suggestion: maybe eliminate the molten lava tiles and switch the Aspect’s bonus to starting their turn next to Lord Cinder (and change the name of the power to reflect that, maybe cinderwings or heat source or something). That way you avoid the molten lava issues as well as making the Aspects less terrain dependent. It will make him easier to set up and much more flexible since he won’t have to place the lava tiles in advance and can adapt based on where the battle is going.

Theme:
“Consuming Heat” name seems off because he’s not destroying the figure itself or absorbing heat from the terrain. Maybe try something like “Heat Scavenger” or “Heat Retrieval”
Also recommend changing it from a mindless who follows Utgar to a mindless with the lava resistance special power, reads more thematically and is a little bit more future proof.
Might also change the title of “Lord Cinder” to something else or change his class to lord because lord is already a class (Cyprien). It seems silly to have someone be named a lord but not actually be one once the class exists. Although Lord Cinder is a cool name, so maybe not

[Shadowking]

Originally Posted by yamissflash

The multi-life squad regen/healing trade off is interesting.

I’m concerned that placing molten lava tiles in general is abusable against all-melee armies (without lava resistance). If you have a space in or near a start zone that is only connected by two spaces, in three turns Lord Cinder could set up & get behind a molten lava moat and then have his Aspects do all the fighting. When they die he can respawn them, so he wouldn’t need to leave his lava fortress. You would need a 20 to even attempt to attack him.

In a less extreme scenario he could simply wall off a choke point. Although it is a kinda slow process.

Suggestion: maybe eliminate the molten lava tiles and switch the Aspect’s bonus to starting their turn next to Lord Cinder (and change the name of the power to reflect that, maybe cinderwings or heat source or something). That way you avoid the molten lava issues as well as making the Aspects less terrain dependent. It will make him easier to set up and much more flexible since he won’t have to place the lava tiles in advance and can adapt based on where the battle is going.

Theme:
“Consuming Heat” name seems off because he’s not destroying the figure itself or absorbing heat from the terrain. Maybe try something like “Heat Scavenger” or “Heat Retrieval”
Also recommend changing it from a mindless who follows Utgar to a mindless with the lava resistance special power, reads more thematically and is a little bit more future proof.
Might also change the title of “Lord Cinder” to something else or change his class to lord because lord is already a class (Cyprien). It seems silly to have someone be named a lord but not actually be one once the class exists. Although Lord Cinder is a cool name, so maybe not

Hmm, is that something that comes up a lot with tournament-style maps? The ones I've seen/played on so far have had start zones such that doing this wouldn't be anything close to an issue but I'm not sure if I've only been using a small subset of available designed maps or not. Walling off a choke I think is fine since as you said it's slow and the map should have other places where attacks can push from (plus he's a decent investment of points, though I'm still not sure I have his costing exactly right).

Spending order markers on your Aspects is actually a bit risky heading into the mid-game due to their relative fragility once up into the fight, and you have to spend a lot on Lord Cinder to get them back if they die (while only using his one attack per marker, and potentially getting him into situations where he can be threatened). I do really like the idea of a hero that can place molten lava, but it's obviously a very potentially threatening ability so yeah you do have to be careful with the design (also part of why he's only limited to two tiles).

[Blue Trails]

Like yamissflash, I'm also concerned about a power that places molten lava tiles. It's an awesome idea, but two tiles are sufficient to permanently deny Glyph access to peanut bases on several popular tournament maps (e.g. Highways and Dieways, the Borogroves, and Battlefield 23).

I think you could safely remove Cinder's inability to attack friendly figures to trigger Consuming Heat; in order to benefit from the healing, you'd have to spend an entire Order Marker on a single attack of 3 dice against your own figure. The best case scenario of Cinder attacking a 1-Life Aspect from height and then immediately reviving it only has about a 1/8 chance of occurring, and the probability is worse if you increase the threshold required to activate From the Ashes. Moreover, as you've mentioned, a mid- or late-game OM on Cinder carries a significant opportunity cost, so this wouldn't always be a viable tactic. It would be a very "Utgar" thing to do in an emergency, though—especially for a proud wizard who knows that the loss of his aspects is only temporary.

As written, an engaged Aspect of Cinder can activate Molten Wings by stepping off a lava tile and hopping back onto it in a single move. I don't know if this is intentional, as the power seems to encourage charging maneuvers.

Finally, you might want to look to the Arena of the Planeswalkers board game for the Aspects' sculpts. The base set contains a set of three flaming phoenix miniatures that seem to match the unit you've created.

[Shadowking]

Unfortunately I haven't had much chance to playtest anything yet, but did whip up some new stuff; a couple Agents intended to both reuse the two non-Skahen sculpts of the Nakitas and also expand their faction in army building, and some long-missed medieval archers to go with the Knights of Weston. Codename: Scarlet (the Nakita holding the gun in two hands, I imagine her repainted with a red suit) is pulling together elements of Clayton, Ornak and Kantono Daishi together, and Agent Kray (the final Nakita) is a decently low-price cheerleader that can support your squads - she may be a little underpriced at 60 due to her Stealth Armor 13 despite her low life and defence, I'm not sure. Codename: Scarlet is likely a decent bit overpriced, but I forgot to adjust her down after some ability & stat tweaks; probably something in the 100-130 range would be appropriate.




(the Longbowmen of Weston have 3 figures per squad)

[yamissflash]

For Codename: Scarlet: Gather Intel is the coolest power. Maybe it should be have a smaller range than her normal attack so it’s a choice/risk rather than just an additional power?
I think Sighting sort of implies a little farther shot than just 4 thematically, maybe boost the range (but not boost gather intel and maybe reduce gather intel to 3) and then maybe slightly boost the price/keep a little of the unadjusted price.

For Longbowmen of Weston, they’ll be a tough custom to make since the knights are already really good, and the Longbowmen let them even better against melee, where I don’t think they need help.
I’m assuming you meant to take out the “or more” wording of the Knight Cover Fire.
For a thematic reason maybe add in more restrictions to Valiant Shield Wall since not all valiant figures have shields (of course you won’t have a lot of space for other variants after taking Knights of Weston with these Guys but just in case). That also might give you a little design space if you could figure out wording that excludes Sir Gilbert but includes other champions like Sir Denrick or a Viking. Sir Gilbert I believe is widely considered the best option. So if you couldn’t use him with them it could give you some room without being overpowered while also improving the relevance of some lesser used Knight bonding options.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

I agree with yamissflash regarding Codename: Scarlet's range. In fact, I would actually argue that the short range on Codename: Scarlet (and Agent Kray, to a lesser degree) constitutes a rather jarring theme break. Every single agent in the game - across both C3V and classic - has a range of at least 6, with the majority having a range of 7; even in a vacuum, it would make little sense for Codename: Scarlet to have less range than the units she's directing. This might be justifiable if her weapon was a more powerful, but shorter-range weapon, but this is the case neither mechanically - her attack is 3, on par with the Krav Maga, Nakitas, and Agent Skahen - nor aesthetically, since she, as a Nakita Agent repaint, uses the exact same pistols as the Nakitas (with a Range of 6) and Agent Skahen (with a Range of 7). Thematically, it's difficult to understand why Codename: Scarlet, firing the exact same weapons as the agents she's commanding, is apparently so much worse a shot.

Reinforcing the above, Vydar - in the context of classic, prior to the D&D sets - ended up having high Range values as a key "theme" of his army. Syvarris and Deadeye Dan have the highest natural range in the game, but Vydar's Soulborgs consistently outranged their direct competitors. The Blastatrons have 7 Range, one more than the other classic 4-man Ranged Squads like the 4th Mass, Ashigaru Harquebus, and 10th Regiment of Foot, while Majors Q9 and Q10 have 8 range, outranging Utgar's Deathwalkers, the cowboys, and the myriad other units with 7 range. You can also see Vydar's tendency towards ranged attacks in his Flagbearer, Laglor. Other generals' flagbearers improve their allies' move (Sir Gilbert, Acolarh), their survivability (Acolarh, Hatamoto Taro), or their offense (Sir Gilbert and Ornak); Laglor, and Laglor alone, boosts allies' range (notably, Major Q9 and Q10 outrange Syvarris while in Laglor's aura and match Deadye Dan's otherwise uncontested 10 Range). C3V has focused on other aspects of Vydar's army (like his special attack-resistant golems), but even there, you have units like the 53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters, who can potentially hit 9 range when none of them move.

Taken together, I really think that Codename: Scarlet's range needs to be boosted to be in line with the agents she's commanding and the general she serves. I hate to be so negative about this: as I've stated earlier in this thread, I think you're doing some really, really neat things with your customs. Furthermore, I really like the idea behind Codename: Scarlet; Mission Assignment creates a really nice image of a field commander directing her subordinates, and Gather Intel is a really neat, thematic power. As it currently stands, though, the fact that Codename: Scarlet has to be so much farther in front than the agents she's directing cuts against the very image of a cool field director the card is trying to convey. To really get anything out of your OM1 on Codename: Scarlet, you actively have to throw her ahead of the very agents she's commanding, right into the middle of enemy territory! I get why Codename: Scarlet is so short-ranged - it's very much in line with where AoA was trying to take ranged units, for one - but for me personally, it just kind of thematically and mechanically doesn't work in the context of a commander for a group of units that were distinguished in large part by being tricky long-range attackers.

[Shadowking]

Hmm, yeah it's tough thematically for the Longbowmen but I think you are mostly right in that it doesn't really help them in an area they need the help in - it does however provide "free" value without order markers after you position them, so I could still see a squad or two being useful. One option could be to switch it to like "Counterfire" and make it a trigger on a ranged attack VS a Knight (i.e the Longbowman firing back at the thing shooting)? But that is perhaps a stretch in terms of theme, I'm not sure. And yeah it's meant to not be "or more", haha.

I'm fine buffing the two Nakita sculpt's ranges to 6 to be in line with the Nakitas, yeah. While it does make sense thematically for sure, I do think it makes them play slightly worse/more frustrating for the opponent, but it's almost certainly still within the realm of acceptable (and Scarlet especially does want to hang back if she can). I think at 6 range for each, Scarlet at 120 points and the other one at 70 is probably a decent starting point.

[Shadowking]

I know I should really try and get a chance to playtest more, but I haven't had much chance to play even real games lately unfortunately. Still keep getting the urge to make stuff though, so here is a full Large Hero Expansion for you featuring a Polish Hussar King for Jandar, Hannibal's War Elephant for Einar, a Spider Queen for Aquilla, a Valkrill Skeletal Knight, and an Utgar Soulborg Dragon!







(please pretend all the slightly off-name powers in the text of other powers are correct - I think only applies to Soul Weapon(s) on Tothik and Entangling (Web) on the Broodqueen, the program didn't like it when I tried to fill in the full names)