Do Soulborgs have souls?

[IshMEL]

This may be an "how many angels can dance on the head of a grenade pin" sort of question, but do Soulborgs have souls? How about Constructs / Warforged / Golems / Elementals?

I ask because I've made some customs (the Souls of Vengeance and Aravi T'se) that have soul-based special abilities, and I'm wondering if they should effect Soulborgs (et al.) or not. I'd initially thought, well, they're robots, so no, but I figured I'd ask.

One the one hand, they're not affected by Lycanthropy or Chilling Touch; on the other, they are Soulborgs....

Any thoughts on this?

[Sherman Davies]

FWIW, in my own customs projects, when I design spirit draining powers or the like, I assume that Soulborgs have souls.

[MegaSilver]

As stated in the bios, Soulborgs were once formally Maeridians, but had or did trasnfer there souls/minds into machines.


CT and other powers like that are aimed at the body, and does not affect the body. So, any soul/mind draining powers should effect them. (Mindflayer, for example.)

[IshMEL]

Thanks, that's very helpful!

Any thoughts on Elementals / Warforged / Golems / Constructs?

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by IshMEL

Thanks, that's very helpful!

Any thoughts on Elementals / Warforged / Golems / Constructs?

They are soulless, as far as I know, except for the Warforged. (They are essentially Soulborgs/robots too, except there's a difference. I think that they are run by magic.)

[Just_a_Bill]

Yes, they have souls, and here's the "proof": Soul Devour (Shades of Bleakwoode) and Soul Weapons (Death Knights of Valkrill) do not exempt the Soulborg (or any of the other species you mentioned).

In a game like this, you pretty much have to assume that every figure represents a sentient creature of some kind with a mind/brain/soul, or the exceptions would get out of hand pretty quickly.

[Kroc]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Yes, they have souls, and here's the "proof": Soul Devour (Shades of Bleakwoode) and Soul Weapons (Death Knights of Valkrill) do not exempt the Soulborg (or any of the other species you mentioned).

In a game like this, you pretty much have to assume that every figure represents a sentient creature of some kind with a mind/brain/soul, or the exceptions would get out of hand pretty quickly.

IshMEL, please define a "soul." I mean, do dogs have souls? What about amebas? Dolphins? It's kind of a slippery slope in the real world, so why should it not be in Heroscape?

Take Elementals for example. If I call an Elemental into existence with a spell and it disappears the second the spell ends. Then clearly no soul. If on the other hand I am transporting this Elemental from another plane where she has a lovely normal existence (a job, 2.5 kids, a nice SUV) then I would say she does have a soul.

I'd go with the precedents (and kudos to Just_a_Bill for finding them.) Of course you do have Cyprien's "chilling touch." But I think that's more of something that impacts the "flesh" of the target than the soul.

[chas]

Megasilver is right about the Warforged (including Heirloom, Seige and the Warforged Soldiers). I read onsite that they were now considered a separate sentient race on their world, as having gained or been magically given consciousness--I think as a reward for their help in a war, rather than in their initial production process! However, while I was about to include Iron Golem, who looks Warforged to me, I see now that his card has him as a Mindless Construct, so that puts him right on the line, huh? But for game purposes, since he stays on the board as opposed to being a spell temporary, I'd agree with the ideas of the posters above, which I'll interpret to mean that he has a soul.

A power that affects a "soul" affects everyone. A power that only affects physical organics does not affect Soulborgs/robots, etc. That would include SD's new Validus (Supervillain) who he just made as a Mindless Creature, I'd think.

Wonder what a C3G member would say about their new Green/Other Lantern Constructs? I just learned about them by printing one out for the first time. They have to be paid for by build points, and stay on the battlefield once they do appear. Maybe that's the best game definition of soul.

[IshMEL]

Thanks everyone for your input on this burning theological issue! What you all are saying makes sense -- I was over-thinking things when coming up with special abilities, and not in the spirit (so to speak) of "it's a game, not a simulation."

Incidentally, I looked through the special abilities list on the spreadsheet, and here are the powers that have Species or Class exceptions, along with my parenthetical interpretation. I've probably missed some.

• Chilling Touch -- Soulborgs, Destructible Objects (needs flesh)
• Fledgling Lightning -- Destructible Objects (doors can't be hit by lightning?)
• Life Drain -- Destructible Objects (needs spirit/soul)
• Lycanthropy -- Soulborgs, Constructs, Lycanthropes, Destructible Objects (needs flesh)
• Marro Plague -- Soulborgs and Wulsinu (needs flesh / self-immunity)
• Soul Weapons -- Destructible Objects (needs spirit/soul)
• Toxic Skin -- Soulborgs (needs flesh)
• Venomous Sting -- Destructible Objects (needs flesh)
• Zombies Rise Again -- Undead (needs living flesh)

So precedent would indicate that anything that's not a Destructible Object has some kind of animating spirit / soul / animus / whatever you want to call it.

Now I have some cards to rewrite...

[johnny139]

I'd say Soulborgs have souls - simply based on the premise of HeroScape, which draws on the concept of Valhalla, where warriors go after they die in battle. I'd always sort of assumed that Soulborgs were called as such to keep in line with that concept... they're not simply weapons, they're actual living beings, and thus "count" for Valhalla.

However, D&DScape complicates things. I'd say the Iron Golem and Elementals definitely wouldn't have souls, as they're artificial constructs animated via magic. So how they got to Valhalla, who knows?

[MegaSilver]

You must also remember that some powers were created before new species were added to Heroscape.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

You must also remember that some powers were created before new species were added to Heroscape.

Which makes me start wondering, again, if Constructs should be grandfathered into the Soulborg exemptions. This is the only real storyline breakdown I'm aware of; it seems like everything would pretty much make sense if the Soulborg references on Chilling Touch, Marro Plague, and Toxic Skin were understood to apply to Constructs as well. (This would make the explicit reference on Lycanthropy redundant, of course, but that's just a minor inelegance, not a gameplay or story problem.)

Of course, there's the classic debate: is getting the storyline right worth a fixer rule or errata? Depends on how much a particular person cares about story. I wouldn't suggest it if it required errata to a bunch of different cards, but when a single new rule can do the job, it becomes more palatable. It's a reasonable candidate for a house rule, at least.