Organized Play Discussion w/ Ian of Wizards - Summary pg 1

[weatherr]

I also have a shortage of LGS willing to support HS. That is why I suggested part of the entry fees supporting a HS gaming club. While I would not want a profit from the game, I don't want to have to support all the players who haven't bought a set yet.

How can you get new players in the game if they can't see it being played. Unfortunately I am not in a position where I can come anywyere near the numbers of sets that seem common here. Five to ten dollars per tournament is much more affordable.

If the local gaming club buys master sets, then they have loaner figures for introductory games and terrain for making multiple maps.

[Codeman]

Originally Posted by Jormi_Boced

Another thing that would be nice for WotC to offer is the ablity to buy boosters at ten dollars and free shipping for TDs. At our first tourney we bought boosters and split them into their common squad counterparts as well as a pile of terrain to be prizes. We have continued to do so, but in rural areas at least, it takes a lot of time and effort to gather 15-30 booster packs.

Jormi has a good point here... and I would like to have it added to the summary as this would be very helpful. Last year I had to come up with 33 or 34 expansion packs for the Tree Town Open. I had tried to buy these expansion without going too much over $10 as I was only getting $5 from every particiapant to go toward a 1/2 expansion price. Getting these expansion in itself takes awhile and to have a variety (commons from every wave). This one request would geatly help a tournement host if he knew he had a source for reasonably priced prizes with availability. I think everyone who puts on a tourney spends some of their own money do it .... this would just help alleviate part of that.

I understand this thread is not about prizes ... but I do think this is important.

[fred the bug]

Here's my replies, I'm in Northwest Indiana

How often would you like to have events?
It would be nice if Heroscape did a thing like Friday Night Magic

Do you have a local game store?
I don't own one, but I go to one for Magic tournaments

Do they have space for tourneys?
Ones with small maps

Would you be willing to pay to play or purchase to play?
Yes, I like the thing we do at FNM, where the entry fee is one dollar and there is a small prize (just a promo card). It helps keep a more casual and easygoing atmophere, which is nice.

How many hours do you think would be reasonable for an event at a game store (consider that the store is a business)?
I would go for between 4 and 6.

Should the store supply maps, or should players be expected to provide supplies?
The store should probably keep enough for about an 8 to 12 person tournament, or everyone could bring a small map.

Are prizes expected? Is swiss style acceptible (DCI is the swiss software WOTC uses)?
Where I play Magic, there is a small entry fee and a small prize. I think this is the best way to do it. Perhaps a small prize like a promo figure, or an alternate art and sculpt of an existing one? And yes, swiss style is acceptible.

Do players prefer single elimination (which admittedly frees up store space)?
I do not like single elimination at all, if the tournaments are done in swiss style, it enables everyone to get more for their money and no one feels left out.

If an event happened once a month, what would be an acceptible entry fee?
Anywhere from 1 to maybe 10 dollars depending on the prize.

What ages should be allowed?
Anyone who knows the rules and play using common sense.

Should there be separate age based events so that 40 year olds don't get beat by 9 year olds?
No, if a 9 year old knows the game as well as a 40 year old, they should be allowed to face eachother in a tournament.

Would players be happy playing in smaller point tourneys that can be played faster or on smaller maps?
500 point teams seems like a good and well-balanced standard.

[DarkBladeCB]

How often would you like to have events?
Honestly, the more the merrier. I'm used to playing TCGs where tournament would be monthly, so I guess that's just kind of the expectation for me, but I can understand why, with all the work involved, a lot of people seem to be calling for quarterly. Perhaps some sort of more frequent league system could come into existence in the future to support the tournament system to keep competitive play going during the lulls between tournaments?

Do you have a local game store?
Yes, several.

Do they have space for tourneys?
Well, the comic shop that people play at in Raleigh does and I know of several retailers that could as well. So yes.

Would you be willing to play to play or purchase to play?
Yes. Again, coming from TCGs, that seemed to be the norm and the store would provide prizes in part from entry fees.

How many hours do you think would be reasonable for an event at a game store (consider that the store is a business)?
Gosh, when we played Star Wars we'd be there for a long time. Four, five, six rounds? So probably up to about six hours, I think. That seemed to be fine; obviously, other games took less time (Pokemon, for instance, to not just drop old Decipher products in this thread).

Should the store supply maps or should players be expected to provide supplies?
Well, there used to be a couple of pieces of Warhammer terrain stacked in the back of the game store we used to frequent. So it doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to have a couple boxes of terrain in the back, no?

Are prizes expected? Is Swiss style acceptable?
This is a really interesting question to me, because this is the first game I've seriously gotten into that wasn't in random boosters, so I'm not entirely sure how prizing would ever work. As such, without being able to just give away a box of boosters or whatnot to winners... I dunno. I know the t-shirts were always the biggest draw in my day. Young Jedi regionals I got a t-shirt 'cause I was the youngest kid there by far. Made my day. And yes, Swiss is totally acceptable.

Do players prefer single elimination (which admittedly frees up store space)?
No. Not at all. I started playing these sorts of games competitively against people who were twenty to thirty years my elder and, honestly, I lost a LOT. I was, like, 12... and I came because I loved to go. So I say no single elimination because that 12 year old that doesn't care if he's getting creamed wants to play a bunch of games, too.

If an event happened once a month, what would be an acceptable entry fee?
It would probably depend on prizes, but I'd throw out $5-$10. I'd pay $15-$20, but I know that's pretty unreasonable for some people.

What ages should be allowed?
Any and all comers, but I'd hope, as a person who has been in this environment as a younger person, that they'd have the same positive experience I did and the older members would behave accordingly to make sure that happened.

Should there be separate based events so that 40 year olds don't get beat by 9 year olds?
The only setup I ever saw with this was Pokemon. My Dad was really sad that he didn't get to play in tournaments, too and it always seemed to me that was just because there were SO MANY OF US KIDS. And, let me tell you, I still remember my first win against a 40 year old in Star Wars... I say let 'em play. But if there are rankings, they should definitely be separate.

Would players be happy playing in smaller point tourneys that can be played faster or on smaller maps?
I'd not want to play on a map smaller than one master set, that's for sure. As for smaller point total? I've only played one game ever that was under 400 points. 400-600 seems optimal to me... and thus the average of 500 seems to be cool.

[aquaone]

I haven't had a lot of luck finding many other scapers in my area. I have a small group of friends I play with... and I know there's a get-together once per month in my area... and lots of "big block stores" carry it, but most local game and hobby shops have not.

I'd be happy to hear of some kind of regular tournament play. I would not be happy with exclusive, powerful units for such play. I'm annoyed enough already that there are figures that you cannot get unless you went to specific gaming conventions or spend $50+ to get them on eBay. I don't want more of those out there.

I am favorable with either standard formats with fixed point values and no restrictions except availability for units, each player bringing their own (with army list, no knowledge of other players' armies before submitting your own)... or with store-provided units with sufficient quantity that if everyone wants the same army, sufficient units exist.

I feel that games should be either 1v1 or 2v2. I think map balance is VERY significant. Symmetrical maps, although often considered boring in casual play, make good sense in a tournament environment.

Most importantly, if this is going to be a sanctioned form of competition, I'd want to see consistent ruling, floor rules, and penalties, something similar to the tournament rules already in place for m:tg for example. One of the necessary items would be time limits.

I'm not sure how easy it will be to get FLGS's involved but it would be something to at least give regional events some kind of sanctioning. I know that I personally used to and soon will be again play at least one day, all day, once per month... but I doubt there's any way to sanction such play...

-edit as i didn't see there were standard questions-

How often would you like to have events?
Once a week at most, once per month at a minimum.

Do you have a local game store?
I have a lot of local game stores. I've only heard of one that carries Heroscape and I've never been there. Most scape acquisitions I've made have been from "big block", TRU, and eBay...

Do they have space for tourneys?
I do know of a lot of local FLGS with lots of space but not ones that currently carry Heroscape.

Would you be willing to play to play or purchase to play?
Probably, so long as it wasn't excessive and that there was reasonable reward for cost.

How many hours do you think would be reasonable for an event at a game store (consider that the store is a business)?
It depends on the event.

Should the store supply maps or should players be expected to provide supplies?
I feel the store should provide the setup. It would be easy enough for a store to partner with one of the players or a set of players to do the setup... but I feel the store should provide the terrain as well as be responsible for set-up. Armies is different... that depends on the format.

Are prizes expected? Is Swiss style acceptable?
Prizes would be expected if it was pay to play. Swiss would probably be acceptable.

Do players prefer single elimination (which admittedly frees up store space)?
I am not a fan of it except for short events.

If an event happened once a month, what would be an acceptable entry fee?
This is dependent on prizes. Between $5 and 15.

What ages should be allowed?
Age is less an issue than maturity, which would be covered by floor rules. Unsporting conduct and the like would have to be addressed by a set of standard tournament floor rules.

Should there be separate based events so that 40 year olds don't get beat by 9 year olds?
No.

Would players be happy playing in smaller point tourneys that can be played faster or on smaller maps?
Depends on your definition of "smaller". I think that if you're going to do a multi-round Swiss tournament, you're going to need small armies and fast turns, ~300-500 points. Anything beyond that and well, you're going to have difficulty completing multiple rounds.

[CaptainCanuck]

I just finished reading this entire thread whew long read.

I have not heard anything about support in Canada as there is a growing Heroscape population here. We would like to be on pace with the US as far as when they launch an organized tournament system.

When we run tourneys we do it a little different. We do round robin then single elimination and it fits into time constraints. It is also very simple to run. thats with 15-20 people

We run our tourney's about once a month and allow all ages.

My main point is please don't let Canada get left out in official tournament layout. I worry about this because Canada doesn't even have a rep or employee that supports heroscape works for WOTC. Our hasbro rep is not sure who is handling canada. which is concerning.

thanks

[tokomi]

How often would you like to have events?
Locally 2-3 times a year. This combined with the large events such as Gencon and Tree Town Open provide herscapers with a full year of events.

Do you have a local game store?
Comic Connections in Oswego has taken an active interest in promoting Hersoscape and is willing to host gaming days and tournaments.

Do they have space for tourneys?
Yes, they do.

Would you be willing to pay to play or purchase to play?
Yes, I would. A fair entry fee would be the cost of a booster or bringing a previous purchased booster to supplement any prize support offered by WotC, tournament directors, or local gaming store.

How many hours do you think would be reasonable for an event at a game store (consider that the store is a business)?
Depending on participation 6 hours is not unreasonable amount of time to dedicate to Hersoscape.

Should the store supply maps or should players be expected to provide supplies?
The burden for running a local Heroscape tournament should fall on the shoulders of the tournament organizer. Most game stores that cater to miniature games will have some basic terrain but its most often used in a non tourney format. While many believe the store should provide the supplies there is a cost to store and maintain them.


Are prizes expected? Is Swiss style acceptable?
If everyone covers the cost of a booster or brings a Heroscape item there will be more prizes awarded. I also believe in betterment through competition. Players should have some incentive to improve instead of showing up for free prizes.

After attempting another format, the swiss format is better suited to work in a stores hours.

Do players prefer single elimination (which admittedly frees up store space)?
Many players travel to events outside their area and single elimination would be worth the trip unless there is a great prize for the top slot.

If an event happened once a month, what would be an acceptable entry fee?
Between $10 and $15.

What ages should be allowed?
There shouldn't be an age limit. I recommend younger players be accompanied by their parents

Should there be separate based events so that 40 year olds don't get beat by 9 year olds?
No.

Would players be happy playing in smaller point tourneys that can be played faster or on smaller maps?
I do not think players will be happy with a smaller army or playing on smaller maps. Through trial and error, the community has targeted 500 +\- 20 points to be an ideal range for team build points and maps that use the 1 master set and 1-2 terrain expansions are ideal for tournament maps. By reducing points, certain figures will shelved as they are not effective in smaller armies.

[LMB]

There hasn't been any action in this thread lately, how are things going? Any news?Anyway, my answers...

How often would you like to have events?
Local support only (an individual gaming store), probably once a month at the most. WotC support, quarterly is probably more realistic.

Do you have a local game store?
Several.

Do they have space for tourneys?
Yes.

Would you be willing to pay to play or purchase to play?
Yes.

How many hours do you think would be reasonable for an event at a game store (consider that the store is a business)?
4-8 depending on participation volume.

Should the store supply maps or should players be expected to provide supplies?
This is a really tough question. I know in some hobbies manufacturers/distributors offer special discounts to retailers for purchasing demo merchandise. If this were the case I think it would be a reasonable investment for the shop, otherwise I think a group of player/organizers could probably shoulder the burden.

Are prizes expected? Is Swiss style acceptable?
If the tourney is pay-to-play, yes some sort of prize system should be in place, but that doesn't mean everyone must get a prize just for showing up. Swiss is good.

Do players prefer single elimination (which admittedly frees up store space)?
No.

If an event happened once a month, what would be an acceptable entry fee?
$5-10. Maybe more with discounts to families or larger groups that pre-register.

What ages should be allowed?
There should be conduct etiquette, not age limits. I'd rather play against a 7 year old that needs help doing the math than a 40 year old that swears or throws things every time things don't go his way.

Should there be separate based events so that 40 year olds don't get beat by 9 year olds?
No.

Would players be happy playing in smaller point tourneys that can be played faster or on smaller maps?
Whatever it takes to get things going is okay with me, but i think ~500 point armies are a nice balance point.

[xraine69]

I do not remember where I was reading, but I found someone talking about organizers changing up their format before the official tournament rules came out in order to give WOTC more to look at. The one thing mentioned was how you see so many of the same armies because of the strength of the figures. One change in format I would like to see is less range. Tournament armies are so range heavy, why not limit the number of points of range you can have? Say for 500pts, only 200pts can be range? This would create a lot of new armies and maybe even bring in some of the figures you normally wouldn't think of for tournaments.

[xraine69]

It has been 2 yrs. since this thread was started. Are there any updates concerning organized play from WOTC? Or is this gonna continue to up to the community?

[worldsenemy]

Is this thing on?