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  #25  
Old December 7th, 2006, 01:11 PM
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I saw Swiss Style tournaments mentioned and I’ve been reading up on the concept. I like it, but I’m having trouble integrating it into Heroscape.

As I understand it:
You assign tournament points for wins, loss, and ties (3 points for a win, 1 point for a tie, 0 points for a loss). From round to round people with the same number of tournament points play each other. You can determine a winner outright after a number of rounds required for a single elimination tournament with the same number of people or you can whittle the number of top ranking players down to 4 for semifinals and finals. I like semifinals and finals since provides a more focused climax.

Here is my problem:
To me a tie implies both players have figures left on the board when the time/round limit is reached and you are not counting remaining point (or points killed). This encourages players to hide figures in the backfield and play slowly when things are going badly. Not the thing I want to encourage … I want carnage!

I’ve been thinking a solution is to count points killed and bracket people with the same number of points killed throughout the tournament, but this will not provide clear stratification if all of the battles are close.

Any Ideas ???
Past Experiences ???
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  #26  
Old December 7th, 2006, 06:27 PM
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Satyr, your close, but there is a little more to it. On a tie it is a true tie and I've only seen it happen one time in a HS tournament. It would be when time has run out and both parties have equal number of points left on the board.

If time expires and both parties still have figures left on the board ( which happens about 10-15% of the time - most people do finish their matches before time expires ) the it goes to points. Any card that still is active that person receives points for that card. So typically both sides do not tie as usually someone is ahead on points and would get the win.

In our tournaments even matches that finish within time we calculate the points left on the board by the winner. This point differential is also recorded and used in the pairing and to figure the ultimate placing. In the 2006 Tree Town Open we had 6 people finish at 4-1, 12 people finish at 3-2 , 10 people finish at 2-3 and so on…. So the point differential was used after the won/loss to figure their placing. It was also used during the tournament to figure the matchups. The first round the match-ups were random, but after all the matches up where strictly based off of Won/Loss record followed by the point differential.

As an example we had some one finish 19th with a 3-2 record but a –210 point differential and the 21st place finisher had a 2-3 record with a positive point differential of 210.

Note: For squads as long as you have one figure left on the board you get to count the cards points. Example I have 4 arrow grut cards and during the game I loose 5 gruts I would only loose one cards worth of points (-40) I would still have one out of three left on my second card and two cards are still intact. I get 120 points for the gruts I have left on the board along with all other figures that are alive.

Tree Town Open

Austi-Con / Austin MN
Saturday - October , 2023
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  #27  
Old December 7th, 2006, 07:10 PM
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Codeman, thanks for the clarification on ties and the lowdown on how you've been running your events. Not sure what made me think that you were not counting points after time expired.

I'm probably going to break with the rulebook and count points killed and break it down to the figure level (1 Izumi is worth 20 points). It seems less likely for people to try and play the tourney system rather than the game.

Thanx!
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  #28  
Old December 7th, 2006, 07:20 PM
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I have to say, Satyr, that in the Dallas tourney last October, absolutely no one played the system rather than the game. That was a large part of the enjoyment for me.
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  #29  
Old December 7th, 2006, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyr
Codeman, thanks for the clarification on ties and the lowdown on how you've been running your events. Not sure what made me think that you were not counting points after time expired.

I'm probably going to break with the rulebook and count points killed and break it down to the figure level (1 Izumi is worth 20 points). It seems less likely for people to try and play the tourney system rather than the game.

Thanx!

That's fine... you of course can run your tournament however you like ( that's what I do ). I would just like to point out a few items.

1. Almost all matches do get done within an hour time limit. So if you do count kill points and say you do 500 point armies - after 3 rounds you would have several people at 3-0 with 1500 points and they are all grouped together with no seperation ( no way to do the pairings ). If you do it by point differental it would seperate out the guy that one the battle with just one 25 point figure left on the board from the guy that has been crushing his opponent I hope I understood your scenario correctly if not I apologize.

2. Too Keep it Simple - I would recommend not dividing the card points up... using my arrow grut example each arrow grut comes out to 13 1/3 points each. People seem to have trouble enough adding number that end in 0 or 5 at our tournament and the TD had to correct some math. I would strongly recommend in keeping it Simple.

3. Using point differential along with the win loss record does help put the top players together as the game goes on …. In general typically people end up playing people at their level as the tournament goes on. I have not seen a system that works better ( Not that there isn’t one.. but this I feel works well )

Good Luck – with your tourney

Tree Town Open

Austi-Con / Austin MN
Saturday - October , 2023
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  #30  
Old December 27th, 2006, 05:25 PM
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I'm just starting to contemplate running a tourney. Has anyone dealt with the issue of different ages playing and how to "handicap" appropriately.

One of the great things about HS in my experience is that the dice roll is a great "equalizer" but I would still feel bad about putting 10 yr olds against 30 yr olds in a multi-age tourney...

I was EyeOfSauron back in the day.
Now I'm Mythic.
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  #31  
Old December 27th, 2006, 05:35 PM
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No handicapping is necessary. The Dallas tourney mixed all ages and game experiences just fine. (You could have a special prize for the youngest, of course...or the oldest, but I'd probably get that one!)
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  #32  
Old December 27th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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LOL! Yeah those poor 30-year olds need help against those powerful 10-year olds....errr...oh you meant the other way around....

In all seriousness though, I haven't seen a need to handicap anyone as long as the people playing are old enough to understand the abilities. Like you said the dice are a very big balancing factor...the only thing an older person can bring to the table is experience and that can go right out the window with bad rolling. In fact, most of the people involved in the last DFW tourney would help out novices (in this instance, novice does not equal young age) while playing against them...little pointers on why a move here or there would be better and why using a certain ability would be more beneficial.

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  #33  
Old December 27th, 2006, 05:42 PM
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Why do the kiddies always seem to turn into Dice Jesus when I play them?

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  #34  
Old December 27th, 2006, 05:44 PM
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Ummm...because like the song says, "Jesus loves the little children".



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  #35  
Old December 27th, 2006, 06:32 PM
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You are right. That song never mentions middle aged fat men clutching Sam Adams bottles.

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  #36  
Old December 27th, 2006, 06:39 PM
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No, that hymn would either be "Just As I Am, Without One Plea," or "Turn Back, O Man, Forswear Thy Foolish Ways." <grin>
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