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  #4621  
Old July 11th, 2021, 11:26 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
- - - - - - -

FO-TO-KI-RO
GROTESQUE MONSTER




The figure used is Dire Troll #032 from ICONS OF THE REALMS: Fangs & Talons.

CHARACTER BIO:
Spoiler Alert!


CARD TEXT:
Spoiler Alert!


-Combinations and Synergies-

Synergy Benefits Received
  • DURGETH RAVAGERS: SAVAGE CRY
    As a Savage Hero Fo-To-Ki-Ro can take a turn with the Durgeth Ravager's Savage War Cry power.
  • - ORNAK : Red Flag of Fury
    As a unique hero that follows Utgar, Fo-To-Ki-Ro may benefit from Ornak’s RED FLAG OF FURY activation synergy.


Recently did some good work on this guy and I feel like he is getting closer so I wanted to check in and see if anyone had thoughts on this.
Ninja'ed an update here after doing some workshopping/playtesting with Greywaves earlier this evening. Also, used Necro's wording updates that seemed cleaner/clearer. It was expressed to me that 3 attack with budget whirlwind was really menacing to melee if he every found a place to park on height, I think he is rather overpriced at this point but it is a good step.

We are not as offensively oriented as Jotun who can do quite a bit and has better bonding but we have some sustain that he the giant doesn't have either. Maybe it'll have enough wiggle room for a price reduction.
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  #4622  
Old July 12th, 2021, 09:59 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Not sure it should be a Troll... it is trollish, and perhaps once was a troll, but we wouldn't call a mutated human a Human.

Gore and Graft should be limited to "destroys a figure with an attack" or "destroys a figure with an attack or leaving engagement attack."

There's actually a similar design going through C3V right now. (Horrific monster with multi-attack special and can heal upon killing.) We've had more than a little trouble with it because of the difficulty in balancing the added value of healing upon killing. With such a huge Life pool and decent Defense, Fo-To-Ki-Ro would be nigh unbeatable to some armies. Allowing it to bond too? I can tell you without testing that it's going to be downright unfun for those armies.
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  #4623  
Old July 12th, 2021, 10:36 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Oh, the miniature is a dnd dire troll though. I though I had to stick with that because of recognizable license.

https://5e.tools/bestiary/dire-troll-mtf.html

Ah, is the Gobble and Graft adjustment because of something like searing amulet? That just came to mind when reading. Makes sense to specify.

I can definitely move away from the bonding and work as a stand alone unit.
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  #4624  
Old July 12th, 2021, 11:50 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Oh, the miniature is a dnd dire troll though. I though I had to stick with that because of recognizable license.
If it's, say, a beholder, it needs to be a D&D beholder because it's well-known. It would be like using a Superman miniature to be something other than Superman. A really messed-up trollish monster? Dire trolls aren't a common D&D thing, not even to D&Ders. So it doesn't have to be D&D. But it could be a D&D troll, since that's literally what it is.
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  #4625  
Old July 12th, 2021, 12:35 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Based on NecroBlade's and Scytale's comments, and looking at established wordings (including powers like Life Drain, Bloodborn Rising, Sanguine Sword, Chilling Touch, and Lycanthropy), I would suggest the following. Optional bits are in blue since I don't know your design intent.
GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure with an attack or leaving engagement attack, you may remove 1 wound marker from this Army Card. If the destroyed figure was large or huge, you may remove 1 additional wound marker. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not use Gobble and Graft on Constructs, Soulborgs, or destructible objects.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list
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  #4626  
Old July 12th, 2021, 01:33 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

It doesn't look that dissimilar to the Feral Troll to me

If he seems too solid for a unit that I'm assuming is supposed to be swingy I wonder if the original version with higher attack but lower defense might be better as heroes with 1-2 defenseóno matter how strong or heavy on Lifeónever seem to be too egregious.

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

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  #4627  
Old July 12th, 2021, 02:21 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Another way to go might be something along these lines:
GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure with an attack or leaving engagement attack, you may place the destroyed figure on this Army Card. Each figure on this Army Card adds [_] to Fo-To-Ki-Ro's attack. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not use Gobble and Graft on Constructs, Soulborgs, or destructible objects.
... or possibly even ...
When Fo-To-Ki-Ro attacks with a normal attack, he may attack one additional time for each figure on this Army Card.
... or maybe even even ...
When Fo-To-Ki-Ro attacks with a normal attack, he may attack one additional time for each small or medium figure on this Army Card, and up to two additional times for each large or huge figure on this Army Card.
Now this is just a brainstorm and I have not analyzed it from a gameplay standpoint, but mechanically it would let him truly consume his vanquished enemies. It would also be an interesting counterdraft to respawners like zombies, Marro Warriors/Dividers/Hive, Wildwoods....

Of course, Ebon Armor and Kurrok's elementals would naturally be immune to this if you keep the construct exclusion (which seems logical), but since the list of non-fleshy/non-consumable units has grown, you may want to consider other potential exclusions. For example, Xundar's shadows would not be immune unless you add that species to the list, and the Sentinels of Grax are also not immune (they are Animata, but unlike the Ebon Armor they are not Constructs).

I'm not well versed in the lore on these other-planes kinds of critters, but here's a little table of things that seem to me would be good to review for whether they should be gobblable/graftable.
Code:

UNIT                   CLASS      SPECIES
multiple               multiple   Soulborg
Air Elemental          Elemental  Construct
Avernus                Elemental  Construct
Boreos                 Elemental  Construct
Earth Elemental        Elemental  Construct
Fire Elemental         Elemental  Construct
Greater Ice Elemental  Elemental  Construct
Water Elemental        Elemental  Construct
Augamo                 Golem      Construct
Breach                 Golem      Construct
Iron Golem             Golem      Construct
Lilja                  Golem      Construct
Ebon Armor             Animata    Construct
Sentinels of Grax      Animata    Sentinel
Shadow Binder          Shadow     Guard
Shadow Fiend           Shadow     Minion
Shadow Hound           Shadow     Hunter
Fortress Door           destructible object
Breakable Wall Section  destructible object
Whatever form this flesh-consuming power ends up taking, and for any future flesh-affecting powers, it's probably a good idea to review these kinds of units. (Personally, I will probably add Animata and Shadows to my Werewolf Lord's exclusions on Lycanthropy [when the time comes that such a Unique Hero exists], and I'll have to think about things like the 12th's Gas Grenades.)

So a "standardish" exclusion sentence nowadays could potentially look like this:
Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not use Gobble and Graft on Constructs, Animata, Shadows, Soulborgs, or destructible objects.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list

Last edited by Just_a_Bill; July 12th, 2021 at 02:40 PM.
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  #4628  
Old July 12th, 2021, 02:27 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Riffing off Just_a_bill, I'd do something like this:

Quote:
GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure you may place that figure on his Army Card. If that figure was large or huge, you may also remove 1 wound marker from this card.

MULTI-ARMS RACE
After attacking, Fo-To-Ki-Ro may attack again up to the number of figures on this card. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not attack the same figure more than once per turn.
If you went this route, I'd lower the Attack number.

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Originally Posted by Craig Van Ness View Post
I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
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  #4629  
Old July 12th, 2021, 02:42 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure you may place that figure on his Army Card. If that figure was large or huge, you may also remove 1 wound marker from this card.

MULTI-ARMS RACE
After attacking, Fo-To-Ki-Ro may attack again up to the number of figures on this card. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not attack the same figure more than once per turn.
Oh yeah, that's definitely better. It brings back the healing aspect, maintains a 1-for-1 relationship between grafted figures and extra attacks, and tempers the potentially runaway healing by making it rarer. Nicely done.


Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
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  #4630  
Old July 12th, 2021, 03:38 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Riffing off Just_a_bill, I'd do something like this:

Quote:
GOBBLE AND GRAFT
Once per turn, when Fo-To-Ki-Ro destroys a figure you may place that figure on his Army Card. If that figure was large or huge, you may also remove 1 wound marker from this card.

MULTI-ARMS RACE
After attacking, Fo-To-Ki-Ro may attack again up to the number of figures on this card. Fo-To-Ki-Ro may not attack the same figure more than once per turn.
If you went this route, I'd lower the Attack number.
Taking a figure you destroy has problems with other powers. Like what if he kills a Viking with a Spirit power? And can a Zombie respawn from that card? Just off the top of my head; there are quite a few more.

Markers to indicate kills would work, though.
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  #4631  
Old July 12th, 2021, 03:49 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Yeah but what about that cool power name?

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I highly recommend C3V and C3G customs!
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  #4632  
Old July 12th, 2021, 04:03 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Do you have a picture of this actual mini? I’m curious to see it on the board and “in action”. I’m also wondering how available it is? I haven’t seen this mini anywhere before.
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