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  #1  
Old June 1st, 2012, 04:34 PM
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Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

OK, so I've been working on this for sometime and finally have nailed some things down but there are still some kinks.

For those that don't know the idea is prefabricated custom terrain that you can just slap down on a mat and start playing. This will REALLY reduce setup time and allow for much quicker start times (and thus give you more game time).

Here are the two biggest issues so far and I was just wondering what everyone's take on each is. What I'm after is, "Would this be something you would consider buying?" "Will either issues 1 or 2 affect your decision if you were thinking of buying?"

1) Height of the Hex pieces- The materials I'm using are PVC board so it's good and strong and very water resistant. The problem is it comes in 6mm and 10mm thickness only. Scape hexes are almost right in between these two . I'm going to go with 6mm for a few practical reasons (cost to make and ship being the two most important ones). The problem is this will cause some issues with the metagame (most notably line of site). Since it takes higher terrain to block line of site this will certainly effect strategy.

2) Cost- I have this down to .15 per hex to make. This is very much in line with existing terrain prices (single hex pieces are usually around .25, double .33 and triple .39 each). The problem is that when you are making objects like terrain in 3d it cubes the number of hexes to create. So for example lets say a hypothetical cliff "bluff" was a standard 7 hex piece stacked 8 high. That's 56 hexes so would cost around $8. This is a bit of an extreme example and likely not the best to use since 7 hexers are the cheapest per hex item to buy but you get the idea. I'm thinking of making a "grotto" where there is a pool in the middle with a stream running into it surrounded by rocks and grass with an elevation of 3 or 4.

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  #2  
Old June 1st, 2012, 08:57 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

I don't think that the height of the pieces would concern anyone. If you are going to be playing with a board with pre-fab terrain and a lexan mat, competitive play probably isn't your main concern, so a slight difference in the height of tiles won't change your experience of the game at all. Even if there was a tournament that used prefab terrain, this would likely be known beforehand, and people could plan for the metagame shift.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 09:35 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

I'm going to preface this by letting you know that I have a ton of terrain already and make custom terrain on a regular basis, so I will most likely never buy any of this product. With that said, I can give you my thoughts based on my perception of what a new comer to the game might want.

I don't think the height difference will be that big of a deal as far as LOS is concerned. Most 'quick game' scape boards I see rarely stack terrain straight up 6+ levels to create a LOS blocker. The most common quick basic boards I see only have a few small hills that are 2-3 hexes higher that the hexes near to it to give high ground opportunities. When LOS blockers are wanted they use the ruins, which is something I would recommend you offer as part of your 5 min scape concept. Walls and other LOS obstacles that can stand up on the map on there own without taking away many, or any hexes.

On the cost issue, any chance you can make them without the hidden inside hexes that don't really do anything? If the 'hexes' are going to be glued together for quick set up and take down, all the internal layers are not going to be needed for stability. So say you have a bunch of 1, 2, & 3 hex shapes created. Then you stack them up to create a hill or whatever, while leaving the inside hollow. Glue all the hexes together to form a single terrain piece and the cost is calculated based on the number of 1, 2, & 3 hex pieces you used, not on a solid hex hill.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 01:25 AM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

I am a new comer to the game and currently have very little terrain (just 1x RoTV and 1x Marvel). From the differences in the height I take it that this terrain would not be able to seamlessly meld with the official terrain (if that is not the case you can probably disregard the next paragraph).

But I feel like I would not buy all that much of this terrain for a few reasons. First because of the height difference. I like all my stuff to be able to work together. I don't want to have yet another storage thing (and I know my troubles are minuscule compared to others with many of each set), but having to keep the two types separate is enough. Second, although i do buy from your store on occasion (when I haven't found any really good eBay deals in a while) I would hate to limit myself predominately to one source to obtain my terrain.

But I could definitely see the possibility of me buying some LoS blockers such as glaciers, etc. that are very expensive otherwise. And yes I know that you have custom glaciers up on your site already, I've just been too busy buying other things first.

Now all of that is just me. I have a collector's spirit. Some casual players would definitely buy this stuff. Some of my friends are hard to get games with just because they hate the setup so much. I just thought I'd share my view that this wouldn't appeal to all newcomers and I have no idea how it appeals to any of the people who have been playing for a while. But all that is my .
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 11:01 AM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

Despite owning tons of terrain, this is something I would definitely buy, because of the reason it was created: quick five minute set up.

I would do this if the map created can resemble a typical tournament map by today's standards: balanced for both sides, and ranged armies can't dominate. So there needs to be something about it that gives melee a chance (maybe roads or a shadow tile or jungle terrain effect, LOS blockers, height found only in the middle, etc).

Basically, if I have an army idea, I want to be able to quickly roll this out, plop down my few pieces, and test out a match real quick and see. If I can do that, I know it's at a level worth not only owning, but giving out as a gift as well in the hopes of growing the game.

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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

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Originally Posted by Deroche View Post
Despite owning tons of terrain, this is something I would definitely buy, because of the reason it was created: quick five minute set up.

I would do this if the map created can resemble a typical tournament map by today's standards: balanced for both sides, and ranged armies can't dominate. So there needs to be something about it that gives melee a chance (maybe roads or a shadow tile or jungle terrain effect, LOS blockers, height found only in the middle, etc).

Basically, if I have an army idea, I want to be able to quickly roll this out, plop down my few pieces, and test out a match real quick and see. If I can do that, I know it's at a level worth not only owning, but giving out as a gift as well in the hopes of growing the game.
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Old June 2nd, 2012, 12:57 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

Ditto on the comment about also selling LoS blockers. I know you sell wall pieces from RotV, but if there's anything you could make of your own that's cheaper, I highly approve.

I love the idea of the prefab terrain and once its released, I plan to buy some. However, I'd like to see a variety of options (I'm sure you're already planning this) so that I can throw stuff on my mat and have more than just a flat mat with two hills on it.

Also, I'm curious how well the prefab terrain will mesh with regular terrain. Will it be stackable on regular terrain in any way? Will it work to have some regular tiles on the mat and prefab tiles on the mat?

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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Old June 2nd, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

LOS blockers would be a very hot sell. I know the locking mechanism is copyrighted, but I believe the way the ruins sit on the board is not. Making more LOS blockers of varying sizes, new walls, pillars, and things that serve the same function as the ruins but look different would be great. Ruins are excellent but they are in pretty much every map and it makes them somewhat boring.

As for the thickness, I don't know if i get what the issue is. If the problem is that the thickness of the plastic itself, that isn't a big deal at all. But the way it's phrased makes it seem like the pieces themselves are shorter.

Personally, If I bought these, I would want to use it alongside my normal pieces. I know they can't lock together at the side, for copyright reasons, but I wouldn't want to have pieces that are shorter than the others but still considered the same height. If it is possible without getting sued, I would also like to be able to stack other pieces on top of them to make minor adjustments to the larger 5 minute scape piece. After all, Heroscape is all about customization.

I think for me I would want everything to be able to fit on top of a normal game board. I don't want to be limited to only using this with a mat. I want to be able to expand it.

As far as cost goes, I don't see why the price would be cubed like that, as it probably doesnt need a lot of support underneath to stand straight as one big piece, so there are a lot of "hexes" that are being paid for that are just a few millimeters of plastic wall.

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  #9  
Old June 3rd, 2012, 08:59 AM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

Good stuff peeps, keep the suggestions / comments coming.

I get that everyone wants new LOS blockers, I'm open to suggestions on what to make! I thought of one thing we could do very cheaply so far but it won't have too much use.

A solid black Monolith (with 1:4:9 dimensions of course!). We could do 2 sizes. A one space one which would only be about 2 inches tall and a 2 space one which would be about 5 inches.

I'm using very sturdy PVC board for this of different thicknesses. I can print on both sides but that will add about 2 cents per hex (or same amount of area a hex takes up). I'm testing a mold that will fit on the normal scape hexs today so we can attach any customs to those. SO...what I need is some ideas for LOS blockers.

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  #10  
Old June 3rd, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

Maybe an old Civil War fence, like:



It'd be about 3-4 levels high. Just an idea. If only there were Civil War figures. That would be awesome.

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Old June 3rd, 2012, 02:13 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

How about bridges? A wooden bridge would be cool, with hexes drawn on the surface. A width of two or three hexes wide would be nice too.

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Old June 3rd, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Re: Opinions needed for 5 minute Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by heroscaper2010 View Post
Maybe an old Civil War fence, like:



It'd be about 3-4 levels high. Just an idea. If only there were Civil War figures. That would be awesome.
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