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  #121  
Old February 1st, 2008, 09:54 AM
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Velenne Velenne is offline
 
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I'll also just answer Imax's questions. The rest of this discussion is silly and pointless. And I'll tell you why if you read on.



Quote:
1) Do you believe that God created the world from nothing in a literal 7-day period? Like if we had been there, we wouldn't have had time to grow a decent beard?
Don't know and don't care. What I do know is that when I start mincing the Bible down to its components so my brain can make sense of every minutiae, it loses much of its luster. I think God understands that part of the essence of beauty is the mystery behind it. If he wanted to make the universe in exactly 7 solar days, or 7 nanoseconds, or 7 sidereal days, or 7 periods of indeterminate time, it doesn't change the context of the creation story to me. There are layers of far more significant meaning to that story than how many days it took.

Quote:
2) Do you just say that carbon dating is a tool of the devil? Because if you don't, how do you reconcile a considerable pile of scientific evidence that would really destroy the Lost World theories for people who are not allowing religion to overrule science?
Well, I think the devil gets far more credit than he's due. His tactics really don't change (shame, flattery, and divisiveness primarily) and he isn't the reason for sin as I understand it. The nature of science is and should be an inherently humble one, exhibiting a willingness to admit wrong and change. But some people just can't be humble and so we get scientists and Creationists alike who just want to bicker and push their own agendas.

(I'll skip #3 since it doesn't apply to me.)

Quote:
4) Can anyone explain why God couldn't have used evolution to create the world?
I spent several years of my life defending the scientific merits of the Bible as a work of history. I mean I must have read shelves of books on philosophy, theology, hermeneutics, ontology, apologetics etc. And when I finally devised what I thought was a pretty ironclad system, I tried talking to people about it.

And wouldn't you know it- nobody wanted to listen!! Plenty of people I spoke with face to face or chatted with on the internet (bad idea) had made up their minds and refused to carry on an open, intellectual discussion. And when I'd thoroughly reasoned circles around them, they remained unconvinced. It was infuriating! More importantly, my own faith didn't grow a single ounce. It was like I was stuck in the first step of the race, analyzing that step to the nth degree.

So about 1 am one weeknight at a Waffle House, I'm talking to a guy who seems to really know his stuff. We'd been going back and forth for nigh on four hours when out of nowhere it hits me that I've been chasing a red herring. This guy didn't have a problem with the Bible, he had a problem with Christians. So you know what I did? I apologized sincerely for wasting his time and misrepresenting Christ to him. I paid his tab, got in my car, and did some soul searching for the next few weeks.

Since that night, I've purposely tried to forget everything I learned in those stupid books. I might call those years a waste of time, but there was a lesson there for me and I hold tightly to it to this day: people don't want a reason to believe, they already want to believe its true. What they need is an experience that can't be explained with their brain. They need relevant truth, not theocratic gobbledygook. They need the kind of truth that shifts the way they approach life and their loved ones. They need their needs met with humility and sincerity instead of judgment and duty. Under my own power, I am utterly unable to give them any of that. I can only represent Christ in the best way I can (which I'm certainly not all that great at), by loving people as He would have loved them.

I still have a mission, but thank God it's not up to me to do the hard part. Your faith is your business, and if God wants to meet you, the absolute worst thing I can do is try to talk you into it. I remain convinced that an unbiased search for truth will inevitably lead one to God. We each have our own such journeys and I remain hopeful that He knows what He's doing with mine.

Of course, if none of that answers your question, there's always this...





I wish I could color that but I lost my Rapturous Red crayon.
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  #122  
Old February 1st, 2008, 10:25 AM
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InfinityMax InfinityMax is offline
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Velenne, that was not only an excellent discussion of the finer points of the creationist/evolutionist debate, but an absolutely brilliant argument regarding the nature of evangelizing. Well done, and I am proud to call you my friend.

Plus that comic was friggin hilarious.

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  #123  
Old February 1st, 2008, 10:31 AM
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  #124  
Old February 1st, 2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Velenne
That is brilliant; where did you find it?

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  #125  
Old February 1st, 2008, 12:15 PM
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  #126  
Old February 1st, 2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityMax
Velenne, that was not only an excellent discussion of the finer points of the creationist/evolutionist debate, but an absolutely brilliant argument regarding the nature of evangelizing. Well done, and I am proud to call you my friend.

Plus that comic was friggin hilarious.
/sign

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  #127  
Old February 1st, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markwars
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityMax
Velenne, that was not only an excellent discussion of the finer points of the creationist/evolutionist debate, but an absolutely brilliant argument regarding the nature of evangelizing. Well done, and I am proud to call you my friend.

Plus that comic was friggin hilarious.
/sign
Yep.

And I thought I would never post in here.
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  #128  
Old February 1st, 2008, 01:20 PM
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lots of cool stuff
Wow. That was great. And I think I'll make that picture my Zune background now.
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  #129  
Old February 1st, 2008, 01:32 PM
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For everyone's health, I'm not going to actually get into this debate or even read the whole thread. Valid questions, Imax, and they deserve answers. Just not from me because I get too intense.

But the reason I'm even posting at all: I saw a documentary on the Shroud of Turin a few years ago. It showed how scientists ran a whole suite of tests, including carbon dating, to determine the shroud's origins. The results came back as millions of years old. This baffled the scientists until they realized that the shroud had gone through that huge fire in the cathedral in the 80s (I think?), and they figured out that the heat had scrambled the molecular stuff in the shroud to make it *appear* to be millions of years old. If pressure produces heat, and pressure is also required for making fossils, then how do we know that all of those fossil tests aren't contaminated?

Another related question that I'm genuinely curious about, and have never seen satisfactorily answered: If fossils are formed by minerals replacing the actual plant/animal tissue, then why do fossils necessarily have the same age as the minerals which replaced them? And can those minerals be heat-pressure contaminated (as above)?
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  #130  
Old February 1st, 2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markwars
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfinityMax
Velenne, that was not only an excellent discussion of the finer points of the creationist/evolutionist debate, but an absolutely brilliant argument regarding the nature of evangelizing. Well done, and I am proud to call you my friend.

Plus that comic was friggin hilarious.
/sign
Harumph!! Excellent post, Velenne!

Newb.
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  #131  
Old February 1st, 2008, 02:13 PM
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Junge Roman Junge Roman is offline
 
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[quote="Nooblar"]quote]

I have the same questions.
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  #132  
Old February 1st, 2008, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooblar
Another related question that I'm genuinely curious about, and have never seen satisfactorily answered: If fossils are formed by minerals replacing the actual plant/animal tissue, then why do fossils necessarily have the same age as the minerals which replaced them? And can those minerals be heat-pressure contaminated (as above)?
Radiocarbon Dating is not used to date fossils. It's only good for dating things up to about 60,000 years, so that leaves out the Dinosaurs.

Radiocarbon dating (Carbon 14) is much more commonly used to date ancient Human artifacts and remains.

Fossils, on the other hand, are dated according to the gelogical evidence, and dated in retlationship to the age of the rock strata they are found in. Radiometric dating is the technique used to date the rock by measuring the decay in certain trace isotopes found in most rocks.

But I'm no expert.
So, here is an expert:
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/benton.html
This is a great source that should answer all of your questions about dating techniques used in Paleontology.
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