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  #169  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 12:39 PM
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Lazy Orang Lazy Orang is offline
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

You then have to play her with Othkurik!


My Family's Classic Customs
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  #170  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 12:46 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs. [UPDATED: OCT. 1, 2018]


Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Einar monk (name pending)

Quote:
Human
Unique Hero
Monk
Stoic

3 Life
6 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
3 Defense
40? Points

Anticipated Assault:
When rolling defense dice, if [] successfully defended against the attack, place an Anticipated Assault marker on this card, up to 3 total. After attacking with [] you may remove 1 Anticipated Assault marker from this card, if you do, she may attack one additional time.

Melee Defense +1:

Stealth Leap:
Been working on this a bit for a few months. I even have a pretty good figure with availability. I'll post pics later.

Thoughts?

Elegant. Very cool idea. Compared to Siiv, [] is quite a bit stronger.

I have no quibbles with this design. None. A lightweight, but extremely agile monk. Perfect as is. Great job!





Next Generation

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  #171  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 01:13 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

I love the sculpt, and it's nice to see an Einar monk (plus a cheaper option for them).

I'm concerned about how she plays, though. Her uses outside of a Master Lao Xin build are limited to clean-up for the most part, because it'll never be worthwhile to spend turns getting her into position otherwise. By that point, the number of attacks she's going to take and successfully defend against will be limited. Has this been a problem in your games with her?

As for Anticipated Assault, I think that both Way of the Willow and Crouching Tiger sound better and more monk-ish. Mechanically, I'm not a big fan of using markers on such a cheap hero, but that's mostly a personal preference and it's difficult to convey the same theme with straightforward multi-attacks or by basing it off of the number of wounds she's taken. Do you intend for her to be able to attack more than twice in one turn, or is it supposed to be limited to spending just one marker?
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  #172  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 04:55 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Crouching Tiger...
I like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I love the sculpt, and it's nice to see an Einar monk (plus a cheaper option for them).

I'm concerned about how she plays, though. Her uses outside of a Master Lao Xin build are limited to clean-up for the most part, because it'll never be worthwhile to spend turns getting her into position otherwise. By that point, the number of attacks she's going to take and successfully defend against will be limited. Has this been a problem in your games with her?

As for Anticipated Assault, I think that both Way of the Willow and Crouching Tiger sound better and more monk-ish. Mechanically, I'm not a big fan of using markers on such a cheap hero, but that's mostly a personal preference and it's difficult to convey the same theme with straightforward multi-attacks or by basing it off of the number of wounds she's taken. Do you intend for her to be able to attack more than twice in one turn, or is it supposed to be limited to spending just one marker?
She is mostly clean up, but she works as a glyph holder as well, which allows her to build up markers since the opponent generally wants her off of the glyph. Unique heros in a non-bonding army will rarely be able to do much beyond clean up, unless they are ranged, and/or have multiple attacks. While she does have the potential for multiple attacks, she doesn't have them consistently, so you have to fish for them. In an all unique hero army, she can pull out of clean up by holding a glyph, and then unleashing her build up of markers at the opportune time. I usually play unique hero armies with either Rygarn, Red Skull, or if they are almost all Utgar, Ornak, so I have some flexibility in my order markers, and can anticipate when to unleash her assault, without having to manage order makers as much.

After each attack she makes, she can remove a marker, if she does, she gets to attack again. If she has her maximum of 3 markers, she can attack 4 times in a single turn. Once for her initially attack, and then once more for each of the 3 markers on her card. I specifically set the maximum attack to 4, so that if she gets surrounded by a squad of 4, she can potentially retaliate against all 4, assuming she blocks all of the attacks.
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  #173  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 05:22 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Human
Unique Hero
Monk
Stoic

3 Life
6 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
3 Defense
40? Points

Crouching Tiger
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack that is adjacent, if [] successfully defended against the attack, You may immediately take a turn with [This Monk], during this turn, [This Monk] may not move.

Melee Defense +1

Stealth Leap


Just a thought

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  #174  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 05:30 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Human
Unique Hero
Monk
Stoic

3 Life
6 Move
1 Range
3 Attack
3 Defense
40? Points

Crouching Tiger
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack that is adjacent, if [] successfully defended against the attack, You may immediately take a turn with [This Monk], during this turn, [This Monk] may not move.

Melee Defense +1

Stealth Leap


Just a thought
Doesn't the C3V/SoV have really strong opinions about never interrupting other players turns, unless it's just to move figures with Scatter, or Vanish? This would also make the ability a bit better against melee, and absolutely useless against range.
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  #175  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 05:39 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Interrupting turns with other, nested turns is madness. Note that Scatter and Vanish don't provide turns, rather out-of-turn movements. While the nesting of turns already causes problems with powers that have "until the end of the turn" durations, the really big potential problem is nested turns interrupting nested turns, leaving behind a confusing "stack" of units concurrently taking turns.
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  #176  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 05:43 PM
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Kinseth Kinseth is offline
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Fair enough, could make it a d20 power. Success save, D20 zap back.(Storing up extra attacks doesn't exactly feel like a "Quick Response" which is what I think you are aiming for.)

Any thoughts that instead of stealth leap, giving her stealth dodge?

You don't have to take my suggestions, just giving you them. Feel free to ignore them.

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  #177  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 06:28 PM
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Leaf_It Leaf_It is offline
 
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Note that Scatter and Vanish don't provide turns, rather out-of-turn movements.
Yes, I just meant that the C3V/SoV don't like interrupting player turns in general. Even if it's not another nested turn, anything that could muddy the water, whether is be rolling a D20 passive ability, or moving figures around, things need to be carefully designed so they don't get too confusing, and time consuming. Scatter/Scurry would be egregious, since it lets you move multiple figures, and can be quite time consuming especially when things get tense, but it was made by the original creators, so it has a precedent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Fair enough, could make it a d20 power. Success save, D20 zap back.(Storing up extra attacks doesn't exactly feel like a "Quick Response" which is what I think you are aiming for.)

Any thoughts that instead of stealth leap, giving her stealth dodge?

You don't have to take my suggestions, just giving you them. Feel free to ignore them.
The theme I'm going for isn't a quick response, but rather a patient response. She will strike back, but it will be when the time is right, which isn't necessarily immediately. Tigers, as well as most felines, stalk their prey, and take their time to ensure they don't alert their prey, waiting patiently for the right time to strike, which is why I like the name Crouching Tiger.

I think that Stealth Dodge would make her quite a bit better, but doesn't really feel like a monk ability, at least in the heroscape world. No other monks have Stealth Dodge.
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  #178  
Old September 3rd, 2019, 06:51 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Yes, I just meant that the C3V/SoV don't like interrupting player turns in general. Even if it's not another nested turn, anything that could muddy the water, whether is be rolling a D20 passive ability, or moving figures around, things need to be carefully designed so they don't get too confusing, and time consuming.
Yeah. Turn interruption is a pain to deal with in general, because it could interact weirdly with lots of different existing powers, as well as cause trouble with future ones. I wouldn't say turn interruption should be avoided, as it can be a valuable design space, but designers need to understand the limitations and be cautious.
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  #179  
Old September 4th, 2019, 02:50 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'm concerned about how she plays, though. Her uses outside of a Master Lao Xin build are limited to clean-up for the most part, because it'll never be worthwhile to spend turns getting her into position otherwise. By that point, the number of attacks she's going to take and successfully defend against will be limited. Has this been a problem in your games with her?
She is mostly clean up, but she works as a glyph holder as well, which allows her to build up markers since the opponent generally wants her off of the glyph. Unique heros in a non-bonding army will rarely be able to do much beyond clean up, unless they are ranged, and/or have multiple attacks. While she does have the potential for multiple attacks, she doesn't have them consistently, so you have to fish for them. In an all unique hero army, she can pull out of clean up by holding a glyph, and then unleashing her build up of markers at the opportune time. I usually play unique hero armies with either Rygarn, Red Skull, or if they are almost all Utgar, Ornak, so I have some flexibility in my order markers, and can anticipate when to unleash her assault, without having to manage order makers as much.
I'm concerned about her as a clean-up. Other options in that point range such as Siiv are significantly better, or they provide more utility such as Theracus. Her main usefulness in such a role is limited to needing to successfully defend against attacks with 3 defense (4 against melee does help once she gets there) in order to get additional melee attacks on her next turn. I think it could be fun to play, but I'm concerned about its feasibility without the other monks (which, to be fair, Master Lao Xin does exist and would help her find other uses, but I think that each of the other monks/ninjas/similar figures have uses without their own controller as well).
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  #180  
Old September 4th, 2019, 04:38 PM
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Re: Leaf_It's customs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
She is mostly clean up, but she works as a glyph holder as well, which allows her to build up markers since the opponent generally wants her off of the glyph. Unique heros in a non-bonding army will rarely be able to do much beyond clean up, unless they are ranged, and/or have multiple attacks. While she does have the potential for multiple attacks, she doesn't have them consistently, so you have to fish for them. In an all unique hero army, she can pull out of clean up by holding a glyph, and then unleashing her build up of markers at the opportune time. I usually play unique hero armies with either Rygarn, Red Skull, or if they are almost all Utgar, Ornak, so I have some flexibility in my order markers, and can anticipate when to unleash her assault, without having to manage order makers as much.
I'm concerned about her as a clean-up. Other options in that point range such as Siiv are significantly better, or they provide more utility such as Theracus. Her main usefulness in such a role is limited to needing to successfully defend against attacks with 3 defense (4 against melee does help once she gets there) in order to get additional melee attacks on her next turn. I think it could be fun to play, but I'm concerned about its feasibility without the other monks (which, to be fair, Master Lao Xin does exist and would help her find other uses, but I think that each of the other monks/ninjas/similar figures have uses without their own controller as well).
Her biggest flaw, is that the opponent can just ignore her, leaving her with no additional attacks. For this reason, unless I change how her abilities work, she will always have to put herself in a position where the opponent wants to attack her. This will usually be a strong choke point, a glyph, or just a bad position where the opponent can get a height attack. This is how she is regardless of Lao Xin. In an all unique build that does not include Lao Xin, she is generally either clean up, where she will be one of your last figures, and thus must be attacked, or she will be best used as a temporary glyph holder, where the enemy will want to attack her. She'll get the opportunity to build up markers, and can then be moved off for a strategic leap/run into an enemy hero to unload her attacks onto. It will occasionally be worth it to activate her just to attack the opponents melee units that are trying to clear her off the glyph.
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