Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Valhalla HeroScape > Official Units
Official Units Discussion of official HeroScape units

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #49  
Old March 4th, 2010, 04:28 PM
Riggler's Avatar
Riggler Riggler is offline
BoV Judge Emeritus Revisitus
 
Join Date: May 21, 2006
Location: FL - Tallahassee
Posts: 1,234
Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby! Riggler rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

I give up. Math hard. I still don't think all the factors have been considered. But will concede that I was somewhat wrong in my boastful declaration that 3 dice is better than Tough. After attempting to do some statistics myself, I've concluded that in my mind rolling 3 dice is better at some point than Tough, although attack dice must reach a certain amount for that to be the case.

Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old March 4th, 2010, 04:54 PM
Kinseth's Avatar
Kinseth Kinseth is offline
3-Time Online HS Champion & Diplomacy Winner of Land Wars in Asia
 
Join Date: May 16, 2007
Location: On my Throne.
Posts: 8,165
Images: 33
Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death! Kinseth is hot lava death!
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Id rather have 3 Dice than Tough anyday. Think about it in the opposite way.

Would you rather have an hero that always has 3 skulls when he attacks or 6 attack dice? Id always want the 6 attack dice because of the chance of massive hits. That chance for 5-6 on attack dice is nice.

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old March 4th, 2010, 04:56 PM
Frylock's Avatar
Frylock Frylock is offline
 
Join Date: October 20, 2009
Location: USA-MA-Boston
Posts: 933
Frylock knows what's in an order marker Frylock knows what's in an order marker Frylock knows what's in an order marker
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Id rather have 3 Dice than Tough anyday. Think about it in the opposite way.

Would you rather have an hero that always has 3 skulls when he attacks or 6 attack dice? Id always want the 6 attack dice because of the chance of massive hits. That chance for 5-6 on attack dice is nice.
Really? I'd take the three skulls. For me, consistency beats the occasional attack of 5-6, and negates the worry about whiffing.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old March 4th, 2010, 05:00 PM
scorpiusx's Avatar
scorpiusx scorpiusx is offline
CoN Recruiting Officer, Top Masq Sleuth, & Teller of Fantastic Tales
 
Join Date: January 1, 2007
Location: USA-KY-Paducah
Posts: 12,645
scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla scorpiusx is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Id rather have 3 Dice than Tough anyday. Think about it in the opposite way.

Would you rather have an hero that always has 3 skulls when he attacks or 6 attack dice? Id always want the 6 attack dice because of the chance of massive hits. That chance for 5-6 on attack dice is nice.
Not quite the same analogy. If you roll alot of shields, the amount of damage taken will be the same: 0 (unless if the enemy rolls a LOT of skulls.) On the other hand, more skulls will cause additional damage.

-scorp

scorpiusx is Khosumet the Darklord...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old March 4th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Aldin's Avatar
Aldin Aldin is offline
Site Admin & Professional SideBoarder
 
Join Date: September 22, 2006
Location: TN - Nashville
Posts: 13,547
Images: 1
Blog Entries: 4
Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer Aldin is a wielder of the Ban Hammer
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

I dunno, Kinseth. Attacking a figure with 1 life and three defense dice I think I'll take three skulls over rolling six dice pretty much every time.

~Aldin, variance reducingly

He either fears his fate too much
or his desserts are small
That dares not put it to the touch
to gain or lose it all
~James Graham
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old March 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM
padlock padlock is offline
 
Join Date: January 7, 2009
Location: Canada- Ontario - Kitchener-Waterloo
Posts: 549
padlock rolls all skulls baby! padlock rolls all skulls baby! padlock rolls all skulls baby! padlock rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Id rather have 3 Dice than Tough anyday. Think about it in the opposite way.

Would you rather have an hero that always has 3 skulls when he attacks or 6 attack dice? Id always want the 6 attack dice because of the chance of massive hits. That chance for 5-6 on attack dice is nice.
3 automatic hits are better against low defense figures whereas 6 attack dice are better against high defense figures.

Think of it this way. If you're fighting a squad figure with 2 or less defense, 3 auto skulls will always kill it whereas 6 dice won't. Alternatively, against a Raelin backed Minion, 6 attack dice have a better chance of landing a hit then 3 auto skulls.

You could also consider 3 attack dice with deadly attack/shot which would have an even higher variance and do even worse against low defense and even better against high defense.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old March 4th, 2010, 05:08 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 23,737
Images: 112
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Id rather have 3 Dice than Tough anyday.
The only situation where this is correct is if:
  1. You only have one life left, and
  2. You're facing an attack of 5 or greater
In that situation, 5 defense is better than 2+tough. This can be verified as the breakpoint by comparing the wound chance table to the G-Nator wound chance table.

Aside from that, tough is always (slightly) better than three additional defense dice. Consult the post I made two posts before yours for details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Think about it in the opposite way.

Would you rather have an hero that always has 3 skulls when he attacks or 6 attack dice? Id always want the 6 attack dice because of the chance of massive hits. That chance for 5-6 on attack dice is nice.
Roughly the mirror image situation applies here. 3 autoskulls is better than 6 attack dice, except against very high defense figures with lots of life.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old March 5th, 2010, 01:15 AM
Tai-Pan Tai-Pan is offline
 
Join Date: December 16, 2006
Location: Germany - Gießen
Posts: 2,810
Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun Tai-Pan is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Oh dear. I seem to have sparked off something that started a massive string of math guys crunching numbers and not really coming up with a definitive answer. We need something less challenging!!!

So is that a club, a microphone, or a maraca in his hand?

Jugger

It's like football with swords or LARPing without the geeky stuff. In other words, it's awesomely perfect!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old March 5th, 2010, 01:33 AM
Devil's Advocate Devil's Advocate is offline
has been BANNED
 
Join Date: January 29, 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,837
Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
The only situation where this is correct is if:
  1. You only have one life left, and
  2. You're facing an attack of 5 or greater
In that situation, 5 defense is better than 2+tough. This can be verified as the breakpoint by comparing the wound chance table to the G-Nator wound chance table.

Aside from that, tough is always (slightly) better than three additional defense dice. Consult the post I made two posts before yours for details.
In reality, Tough is probably closer to being worth 2 shields overall since defense dice get rolled against both normal and special attacks whereas the Tough is worth 0 Shields vs specials.

Perhaps the best examples are the Nators, they would be much more playable with 2/4 for stats that 2/1 + tough. Granted they still would be below average but at least then they would be less of a gamble.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old March 5th, 2010, 01:49 AM
GreenLanturn's Avatar
GreenLanturn GreenLanturn is offline
 
Join Date: October 17, 2008
Location: USA - MN - Plymouth
Posts: 1,250
GreenLanturn rolls all skulls baby! GreenLanturn rolls all skulls baby! GreenLanturn rolls all skulls baby! GreenLanturn rolls all skulls baby! GreenLanturn rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

I just played 2 games of KoW vs Dwarves, and I have a few things I enjoyed and a few things that presented themselves as problems.

Axegrinders x3
Darrak
Mogrimm
Migol
500/15
vs.
KoW x3
Sir Gilbert
Nilfheim
500/15

I liked Mogrimm, he played well, but his Commander's Strike didn't do a whole ton; between activating the other heroes and missing rolls he only got 3 Knights in the first game and 1 wound on Nilfheim in the second with CS. His attack did fair, but that's expected. My real problem was that he died fast after he got pinned, I quickly learned that tough is not equal to 3 dice; especially when my brother can roll 2 skulls every time on 3 dice.

Migol and Darrak have proven their worth in the past, but I wonder if Mogrimm should replace Migol. The 10 point difference just means I can exclude Isamu even more. I just had a problem with to many heroes... I think this point was made with the KoW in the past.

In forest dark or glade beferned
No blade of grass shall go unturned
Let those who have the daylight spurned
Tread not where this green lamp has burned.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old March 5th, 2010, 02:23 AM
Devil's Advocate Devil's Advocate is offline
has been BANNED
 
Join Date: January 29, 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 1,837
Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker Devil's Advocate knows what's in an order marker
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Yeah for anything close to 500 points, I think the you most you want is 2 dwarf heroes, which pretty much leaves Migol vs Mogrimm. I think your army should run either 4x Dwarves or 5x Dvarves since 3 squads is only leaving you with the ability to take 9 casualties to the axegrinders before your attacks per turn start decreasing
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old March 5th, 2010, 12:31 PM
Acinonyx Acinonyx is offline
 
Join Date: December 13, 2007
Location: ME - Standish
Posts: 55
Acinonyx has disabled reputation
Re: Mogrimm Forgehammer Pre-Release Discussion

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't this guy going to get owned by the special poison attack of the drow in the same pack? 2D vs 3A with the poison damage risk on top? Yikes! It seems like a lot of special attackers will really punish him. As dangerous as he would be to DW8k, he could also get mowed down with one order marker by the same.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Valhalla HeroScape > Official Units
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion about what we want in future release Chimpy HeroScape General Discussion 356 March 27th, 2010 06:00 AM
Air Elemental Pre-Release Discussion Tai-Pan Official Units 58 March 24th, 2010 02:21 PM
Fen Hydra Pre-Release Discussion Tai-Pan Official Units 191 March 13th, 2010 11:21 AM
Wyvern Pre-Release Discussion Tai-Pan Official Units 42 March 5th, 2010 05:34 PM
Fire Elemental Pre-Release Discussion Tai-Pan Official Units 68 February 21st, 2010 01:36 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:58 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.