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View Poll Results: Are WotC's recent actions unethical?
yes 24 28.24%
no 44 51.76%
I don't know 1 1.18%
Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down 16 18.82%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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  #37  
Old November 20th, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
— adj
not ethical; improper:
And Ethical is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
adjective
1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession: It was not considered ethical for physicians to advertise.
3. (of drugs) sold only upon Medical prescription
I'm sorry, people, but defenition 2 fits best, and the standard is to cut a product that isn't making money. I'm assuming that's the case, of course, because if Scape was making cash, then it certainly was unethical. As it stands, they're in the morally good right now even if we don't like them.
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  #38  
Old November 20th, 2010, 11:09 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaemon Awa 123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
— adj
not ethical; improper:
And Ethical is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
adjective
1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession: It was not considered ethical for physicians to advertise.
3. (of drugs) sold only upon Medical prescription
I'm sorry, people, but defenition 2 fits best, and the standard is to cut a product that isn't making money. I'm assuming that's the case, of course, because if Scape was making cash, then it certainly was unethical. As it stands, they're in the morally good right now even if we don't like them.
Nope. Still wouldn't be unethical, it would just be stupid.
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  #39  
Old November 20th, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Kaemon Awa 123 Kaemon Awa 123 is offline
 
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaemon Awa 123 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
— adj
not ethical; improper:
And Ethical is:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dictionary.com
adjective
1. pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
2. being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, esp. the standards of a profession: It was not considered ethical for physicians to advertise.
3. (of drugs) sold only upon Medical prescription
I'm sorry, people, but defenition 2 fits best, and the standard is to cut a product that isn't making money. I'm assuming that's the case, of course, because if Scape was making cash, then it certainly was unethical. As it stands, they're in the morally good right now even if we don't like them.
Nope. Still wouldn't be unethical, it would just be stupid.
It'd be pretty unethical to their shareholders... It's a matter of interpretation... not everyone has to agree.
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  #40  
Old November 20th, 2010, 11:38 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Unethical? No what they have done is certainly not unethical. The only thing I have issues with is how the game was handled up to this point(nonexistent advertising ect.), which is stupidity. Am I happy about what they have done? No, but I'm not going to comment ignorantly just because it sucks.
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  #41  
Old November 20th, 2010, 11:59 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

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Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
Do you really think they would discontinue a line that was yielding a decent profit?
It is certainly possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
How would discontinuing a profitable product line benefit the shareholders?
The discontinuation a profitable product line might allow a company to focus resources on something that is projected to be even more profitable.

Or if a company perceives that a product line has run its course, it may prompt a change even in the face of fantastic profit.

Or if the short term success of a product line threatens to undermine the long term success of the company or one of their core brands.

Or if the company's resources where stretched so thin that they had to make a decision on which product they will continue to support. (You dance with the one that brought you and Scape did not bring about WotC)

I could go on but there are many reasons a company might discontinue a profitable product line.

6 years, 4 master sets, 13 waves, 4 terrain expansions....It all tells me that some significant money was made at some point.

GB, you know far more than I regarding WotC but I have to believe there was more that went into their decision than just the profit margins.

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  #42  
Old November 20th, 2010, 06:36 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Minivann View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
Laws and ethics are completely different things.
I'm not saying they are the same. I'm saying that there isn't anything unethical about a creator of a game not wanting anyone to profit from their game even if they are not actively selling the game. There is nothing wrong about it, legally or ethically. In fact I would argue that they are being very ethical about it in how custom units are allowed, and have practically been encouraged from day one. Let me bring up a gaming example that I would agree is possibly unethical. Games Workshop recently sent out a series of cease and desist letters to fan websites to pressure them to remove all kinds of custom content. The parallel would be if Hasbro sent a round of cease and desist letters to Colby, and any other site that hosts custom maps or units. They (Games Workshop) are completely legally within their rights to do so, but it could be argued they acted unethically, or at the very least incredibly stupidly.

EDIT: Just for clarification, I refer more to Hasbro when I refer to the "they" regarding Heroscape. They are the ones who would really have to sign off on any sale of the line, I think, so they are ones whose ethics are ultimately being called into question. WotC is just guilty of stupidity.
The allowance of our customs is the best point I've heard yet about this. It is something I had not taken into consideration. Perhaps if I was a GW games player I would of thought about that. That is big points for Hasbro and WOTC that they have knowledge of the customs and allow for it. I think it's enough for me to officially change my view. I still think WotC has done some unethical things, but this is enough to say that over all they have not been unethical. If they did put and end to customs, as has been pointed out that they can do, then I'd go back to thinking they are entirely unethical.

I want to point out when I say WotC I really do mean both companies also. Really they both are or are not unethical about this.

On a side note about GW. I just received a phone call from them a few days ago. I was really glad for the call. They were trying to help me out with my new business. I'm not totally sure how the guy got word about my business but I'm glad he did. We are working out a deal to get GW products in my store directly from them. They are even providing materials for free to help promote and display the games. The only thing they required of me was that I would be able to provide demo's of the game. Of course that is one of the main points of my business. I want to be able to provide a demo of everything that the store sells, even if it isn't the exact game but a version of it. I was a bit weary of doing business with GW because of the things I had heard from other people. My personal business with them has been all positive so far though.
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  #43  
Old November 20th, 2010, 06:37 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
Here is the copied post from the other thread I was mentioning that was in danger of being Hijacked, of which I take full responsibility for. It's a worthy discussion I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Minivann View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryfalia View Post
How, precisely, is cancelling a game 'breaking ethics'? Not only that, they informed you BEFORE the last set came out, which is actually a good move from a company, because it lets people decide about making purchases based on that knowledge...
not so much the canceling of a product but the idea of holding onto the license anyway. Ethics are different than laws and to hold on to a license and not allow other companies to use that license if your not. Well to me that is unethical, it may be standard business practice, but still unethical in my view, the way others have reacted I think others feel it's unethical also. Just because it is common practice and legal doesn't make it right in my view. Actually if you look at it another way it could be considered monopolizing and stock manipulation which are illegal. Anyway, that isn't the point of this thread, the point is about how to effectively get from WotC what he should be entitled to as far as customer support, and that is how to do it. Ethics really are just a point of view though, for instance some people consider abortions unethical while others consider denying womens rights to abortions as unethical. In this situation though the golden rule of business applies, which is "The customer is always right" It was a common phrase in the 90's but few companies seem to use that philosophy any more. When using that point of view though WotC is wrong for what it did and BBB complaints are legit.

I want to leave off with saying that I have every intention of being a BBB accredited business, unfortunately they won't accept any company that hasn't been in business for at least one year. I guess that makes sense though. From my own report pull ups of WotC I know that they are not accredited with the BBB, however they do still have a B- rating currently and the BBB still deals with companies that are not accredited. Complaints may not get WotC to do what they should but it would help accurately show what the rating should be if complaints are made.
So what you are saying is that if I were to write a book, for example, (and no publishing company held the rights to it in any way), I self-published the book, and then decided not to publish the book, I would be unethical if some publishing company wanted to sell the book, and I refused to allow it?
In response to Agent Minivann. I think that in that given, no the author may not of broken any ethics. But in a better compairison, lets say that author was producing a very popular series of books. Abruptly in the middle of the series, while the series was most popular the author decided to stop writting, not only that he would not allow any further copies of previous books to be printed nor sell the rights of the series to other authors that may want to continue the series where he left off. I think in that situation it would be unethical. In order for that author to be fair he would either have to allow another author to continue the series, finish the series himself (even if it's a bit shorter than planned), or refund those books that had been sold up to that point. Robert Jordan is an example of this. He had to go and die before completing The Wheel of Times which really upset a lot of fans. He should of completed his series before before choosing to die (I hope people realize these statements are a bit of a joke, of course he couldn't help dieing and I was very sad for his death, he brought much joy to us fans.) Of course Mr. Jordan allowed another great author to finish the series for him, of which I am gratefull.
I'm on Book 8 (Path of Daggers). I have been told the other guy is just as good. (I LOVE THIS SERIES.)

Oh, and I agree that it is unethical, but I feel that ethics were present until they announcement was made. WotC that us fans were loved the game to no end. D3 has had the most screw-ups out of any wave I've seen yet.

1) WotC has been a pain in the butt when it comes to fixing the D3 problems (so it seems.)

2) WotC put D&D advertisements (the core brand that is too important for them to keep working with HS) in every single booster in D3.

WotC: "We're not gonna help you. Buy our other stuff."

That my friends, in unethical.
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  #44  
Old November 20th, 2010, 06:49 PM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquamaniac27 View Post

WotC: "We're not gonna help you. Buy our other stuff."

That my friends, in unethical.
I've only dealt with WotC customer service twice in the past (both times to replace army cards which were damaged due to my own or a friend's negligence), and they were quite cooperative in providing replacements. I didn't even have to fork over any cash, which I had been told by others would come to like two or three dollars per card.

Since I've never had the misfortune of opening a box and finding an error, I don't have any personal experience in fixing the problem, but based upon my previous encounter, I find it hard to believe that WotC would be so deliberately unhelpful in fixing their mistakes.

I'm not saying that I'll be happy about the recent weeks' events any time soon, but some of these accounts leave me scratching my head, and I'd be genuinely surprised to have such an encounter myself.

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  #45  
Old November 21st, 2010, 12:54 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

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Originally Posted by nate the dawg View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquamaniac27 View Post

WotC: "We're not gonna help you. Buy our other stuff."

That my friends, in unethical.
I've only dealt with WotC customer service twice in the past (both times to replace army cards which were damaged due to my own or a friend's negligence), and they were quite cooperative in providing replacements. I didn't even have to fork over any cash, which I had been told by others would come to like two or three dollars per card.

Since I've never had the misfortune of opening a box and finding an error, I don't have any personal experience in fixing the problem, but based upon my previous encounter, I find it hard to believe that WotC would be so deliberately unhelpful in fixing their mistakes.

I'm not saying that I'll be happy about the recent weeks' events any time soon, but some of these accounts leave me scratching my head, and I'd be genuinely surprised to have such an encounter myself.
I've only had one, but it was understandable. I bought an Elves pack at a local Wal-Mart during the "transition" from Hasbro to WotC, and all my cards looked like a dog had been chewing on them. I called for replacements, and they (kindly) said that due to it being a W8 pack, they didn't have access to the cards to replace them, (which I understood), but the proceeded to offer my a discount on Magic cards since they couldn't replace them...

It's not like they were rude *coughcoughapplecough*, but it kind of irritated me that they offered me their other brand as if it could replace what I lacked.
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  #46  
Old November 21st, 2010, 01:18 AM
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Re: Are WotC's recent actions Unethical?

The way I see it is that like it or not, and I don't like it, but Heroscape is their's. They own it, and they can do what they want with it. They might upset us in the process, but that's their right to do so. Plain and simple, they own it, and they can choose to keep or sell it. There's nothing unethical about holding on to what's yours.



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