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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #97  
Old December 19th, 2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Might have overcorrected some if he feels like he's losing steam too fast - what do you think about maybe making it a choice between taking a wound and burning a marker?
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  #98  
Old December 19th, 2019, 07:59 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Might have overcorrected some if he feels like he's losing steam too fast - what do you think about maybe making it a choice between taking a wound and burning a marker?
You mean essentially, still roll an unblockable, but he can lose an X-O Marker to avoid the hit? I think that'd be better yeah. I could run the next game like that.
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  #99  
Old December 20th, 2019, 08:47 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Yeah, roll an unblockable, on a skull you must either place a wound or remove an X-O Marker. I think it should solve the feeling weak and not burning markers problem... in theory at least.
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  #100  
Old December 20th, 2019, 09:30 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

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SHEER FORCE
After attacking an adjacent figure with X-O Manowar, if the defending figure rolled defense dice and did not receive any wounds, you must attack that figure again, rolling 1 additional die for each previous attack made this turn. After attacking, roll a combat die for each previous attack made this turn. If you roll a skull, you must either place a wound marker on this card, or remove an X-O Marker from this card. X-O Manowar cannot attack more than 3 times in a single turn.
So this? Obviously that would tweak the odds, before there was a 5/6 chance of something bad happening. We could make it if you roll a skull OR shield.

Otherwise I like this change a lot. A little more user-choice is cool and strategic.
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  #101  
Old December 21st, 2019, 03:26 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Yeah, I think he needs the odds tweaked. He loses effectiveness really fast.

I'll roll with that for game two tonight.
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  #102  
Old December 22nd, 2019, 01:35 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Still runs into the always take wounds instead of burning markers till that becomes the better option problem.
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  #103  
Old December 22nd, 2019, 03:20 PM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

That's true, but I think that's something I can live with - more than him feeling too weak, that is. It's just sort of a Green Lantern dynamic - takes wounds for as long as you can, then start burning markers, but knowing there's always a risk of taking one wound too many.
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  #104  
Old December 23rd, 2019, 11:23 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Sorry I haven't hit the second game yet. Holiday prep has been keeping me busy. I'll get him soon as I can though.
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  #105  
Old January 4th, 2020, 12:37 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: X-O Manowar @380 points

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: X-O Manowar, Blob, Angel (Warren), Atom (Ray), Ragdoll, Kid Flash, Leatherface, Robot (1200) vs Songbird, Spider-Man, Captain America, Jack Flag, Luke Cage, Speedball (1200)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

-Sheer Force updated to slow down marker loss/self-damage-

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: X-O Manowar, Blob, Angel, Martian Manhunter (I), Lockjaw, Oracle (1200) vs Songbird, Spider-Man, Captain America, Jack Flag, Luke Cage, Speedball (1200)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: One game in so far. First game just took six years to play out, so I'm stopping for today. Not sure about 380 after the first game. The penalties against him in Sheer Force are super harsh; I never whiffed the second attack, but doing that either time would have been a death knell and I was dreading the possibility.

It feels thematically weird to me too. The general dynamic is cool and had me immediately thinking about getting him some Visigoth generics to be his screen, but he lost steam so fast that the mid-level guys started stunting on him after he took two (admittedly very good) turns. It didn't feel particularly Manowar-y.

UPDATED: Manowar's team just kinda crushed it in that one; the Crime Fighter team should have been defensively pretty alright, but uh, that didn't quite pan out.

Notably, the change to Sheer Force between games 1 and 2 made no difference at all in how things played out. The one time it triggered and he had to roll against himself he came up with a skull and chose to take a wound, so same end result as if he had been played with the old version.
Updated the post with game two.
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  #106  
Old January 4th, 2020, 11:44 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Hmm, was hoping for a rousing confirmation there, but yeah, pretty lopsided.

Looking at the results for that second test, I do feel he, at least, was performing on a good level. One good Righteous Rage roll, one extra swing with Sheer Force... a lot of damage to mid-level heroes, probably a slight overperformance, but a lot of that is due to Oracle and Blob and other heroes supporting him. Army did better than expected, I think Aric was on par.

Looking at results overall now:

Version A (unblockable on second attack, X-O Marker on third)
Karat: two slight losses with a good performance (~7 wounds dealt in the first, ~13 in the second)
Arkham: one big loss with poor performance (~4 wounds dealt), one big win with good performance (~7 wounds dealt)

Version B (unblockable die, you choose wound/marker)
Ronin: one slight win with good performance (~11 wounds dealt), one big win with good performance (~11 wounds dealt)

The Sheer Force changes seem to be pretty minor, but I think giving you more control will at least mitigate "feel bad" games like Ronin's first, where he just ends up wimpy too soon. So, taking the results in one go, we have an even W/L record, with generally solid performance from him, though maybe a bit overcosted at 380.

Reading those games, once you "get it," he seems fun to me. Arkham's strategy - stay back and blast at the opponent, occasionally fly in to either finish off a key figure or get in a knock-down, drag-out fight with a big guy... that feels like a good place for him, just going secondhand here.

@Ronin , did the second game feel more "Aric" to you? You're the only person other than myself to know the character pretty well and test him, so that's a priority here. Not sure if the tweaks were sufficient (or there's more tweaks we could do) with the basic shape of the design in place.
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  #107  
Old January 4th, 2020, 11:50 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
@Ronin , did the second game feel more "Aric" to you? You're the only person other than myself to know the character pretty well and test him, so that's a priority here. Not sure if the tweaks were sufficient (or there's more tweaks we could do) with the basic shape of the design in place.
I mean, it did, but a lot of that was that he was just lucky enough not to trigger Sheer Force as much.

I think the change between games 1 and 2 would be more something to level out a poor performance a bit so he wouldn't destroy himself for whiffing a couple attacks, but he didn't happen in game 2.
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  #108  
Old January 4th, 2020, 11:58 AM
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Re: The Book of X-O Manowar (Playtesting Phase)

Okay, good, that was essentially my goal - to make Sheer Force still feel like a punishing, risk/reward type decision, but not enough to be a "feel bad" power that completely neuters him with some bad rolls.

I think I'm good to go with him here - personally I'm hoping to get in a couple games with Livewire soon, and I'll make sure to include Aric in one of those to get a feel for him myself. But for now, looking at his results, I'm going to drop his points slightly to 370 and PROPOSE WE MOVE TO FINAL EDITING!
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