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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #13  
Old March 18th, 2016, 12:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

I'd agree we can cut the defensive power. Bump her up to 5A/6D if necessary; no need to bloat the card when a power can be rolled into base stats.

Less is more is almost always my philosophy.
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  #14  
Old March 18th, 2016, 12:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

I love "While the Bat's Away"; just a wonderfully themey power. Nice work.

I feel like "and is not affected by the Glyph of Utility: Caltrops" should be in the first power, not the third. And on that subject, couldn't Caltrops just be an old-school permanent glyph? Seems like it's more intuitive working that way.
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  #15  
Old March 18th, 2016, 01:13 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
I'd agree we can cut the defensive power. Bump her up to 5A/6D if necessary; no need to bloat the card when a power can be rolled into base stats.

Less is more is almost always my philosophy.
It should be noted that her powers are all very short and concise. Her card spacing is very good right now, well above average I'd say. So bloating is not an issue here.

In terms of actual powers at play...

Batman II picks 3 glyphs from a growing pool of 8 or so, Catwoman picks 2 from a set in stone pool of 3.

Batman has 1 additional power for a total of 4(but more to remember with the glyph selection), Catwoman has 2 additional powers for a total of 4. Now, if your argument is the defensive part is it's own additional power making it 5...if we use that mindset, so what? Characters have the amount of powers they have. Some have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. As long as the overall design is fluid and thematic why does it matter? She's currently at a very small card spacing, her powers are all short...so IMO it's good as-is.

Ultimately in going to go with the majority, but this far I haven't seen any reasoning as to why the defensive aspect that very much plays into her reflexes, needs to be cut out.
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  #16  
Old March 18th, 2016, 01:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
I'd agree we can cut the defensive power. Bump her up to 5A/6D if necessary; no need to bloat the card when a power can be rolled into base stats.

Less is more is almost always my philosophy.


In my opinion, C3G has fallen into an unhealthy trend of complexity creep lately; I'm not pointing any fingers because I know I've been a large part of the problem lately too, but I think it's important we recognize it. The key to good designing is to go as trim and simple as possible while maintaining the core theme of the character and creating a fun design. The best C3G designs are the ones that capture the character in a single power or two, and/or reuses existing powers.

In this case, Sly Arsenal and While the Bat's Away are dripping with theme and cool mechanics, and the Phantom Walk aspect captures her stealthiness in a simple clean way. The defense aspect, however, isn't representing anything that can't be represented in her stats, and is needlessly complex as a mechanic.

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  #17  
Old March 18th, 2016, 01:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

I like the defensive power. I agree with others that the whip could just be folded into her base attack and range (add double attack to cat-like reflexes). Just give her a choice between bolas and caltrops, or (my choice) turn caltrops into a permanent or temporary glyph and make the power all about the caltrops (start with 3 glyphs of caltrops, blah blah after moving place a glyph, Catwoman is not affected). Yeah, you lose the bolas option, but it focuses the card nicely.

EDIT: I guess what this comes down to is that I like simplifying the equipment power side of things, while others like simplifying by removing the defensive power.
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  #18  
Old March 18th, 2016, 01:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
I like the defensive power. I agree with others that the whip could just be folded into her base attack and range (add double attack to cat-like reflexes). Just give her a choice between bolas and caltrops, or (my choice) turn caltrops into a permanent or temporary glyph and make the power all about the caltrops (start with 3 glyphs of caltrops, blah blah after moving place a glyph, Catwoman is not affected). Yeah, you lose the bolas option, but it focuses the card nicely.

EDIT: I guess what this comes down to is that I like simplifying the equipment power side of things, while others like simplifying by removing the defensive power.
I don't like the whip as part of her base stats (unlimited range up or down for the whip is just odd) but I agree with the rest of what you're saying. Fwiw, I feel like the whip is well represented in Catwoman 1.0 and we could possibly just not represent it here and she'd be fine.

That'd give us something like:

CALTROPS
Start of the game with 3 Glyphs of Caltrops on this card. After moving and before attacking, you may place this glyph power-side up on any empty space this figure moved through this turn. Catwoman is not affected by the Glyph of Caltrops.

WHILE THE BAT'S AWAY...
If Catwoman is not within clear sight of a Bruce Wayne figure you control, she has the class of Thief instead of what is listed on this card. After taking a turn with a Bruce Wayne figure you control within clear sight of Catwoman, you may immediately take a turn with Catwoman, and you may not take a turn with any additional figures.

CAT-LIKE REFLEXES
Catwoman never takes leaving engagement attacks or falling damage, and when Catwoman rolls defense dice against an opponent's attack, two shields will block all damage.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #19  
Old March 18th, 2016, 02:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

I don't think R2 is unreasonable given that Carnage, Clayface, Cloak, and Venom have it. My interpretation has been that C3G has basically accepted that it's not using the Reach wording because it's annoying and usually doesn't matter. Just a sacrifice at the altar of simplicity.

But yeah, I like the look of that power set.
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  #20  
Old March 18th, 2016, 02:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by dok View Post
I don't think R2 is unreasonable given that Carnage, Clayface, Cloak, and Venom have it. My interpretation has been that C3G has basically accepted that it's not using the Reach wording because it's annoying and usually doesn't matter. Just a sacrifice at the altar of simplicity.

But yeah, I like the look of that power set.
I don't know how Cloak operates, but the other three I could at least feasibly see extending quite a ways (like Mister Fantastic).

But I could compromise on the Range of 2 being in her base stats if need be. Problem is, what to put her attack at then? 3? 4?

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #21  
Old March 18th, 2016, 02:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

Make sure to send a PM to all the heroes and to post a link in The Control Room. I had no idea that this thread was up.

I definitely agree that the card should be simplified. It's not that there's too much text, but there's just too many powers going on. Most of these powers are combining two or three powers into one and it adds up to a lot. I understand the desire to fit every bit of a character onto their card, but it leads too often to inelegant designs and a loss of quality.

There are a numbers of way to streamline the card from the current design. Dropping the defensive bit, rolling the whip into her stats, dropping the Bolas as an option, etc. No strong preference from me on which way, though I lean toward dropping the defensive ability and the Bolas.

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  #22  
Old March 18th, 2016, 03:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I don't think R2 is unreasonable given that Carnage, Clayface, Cloak, and Venom have it. My interpretation has been that C3G has basically accepted that it's not using the Reach wording because it's annoying and usually doesn't matter. Just a sacrifice at the altar of simplicity.

But yeah, I like the look of that power set.
But that part about it not usually mattering may change in the not so distant future when new terrain is unleashed.
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  #23  
Old March 18th, 2016, 03:17 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

I'm willing to put the whip into her stats, and putting her attack at 4(not sure where the attack of 3 would be coming from...her whiplash special attack was attack of 4...) as it shouldn't go any lower.

Not wanting to drop the Bolas. Starting with Bolas and Caltrops is what makes the design fun and reminiscent to Arkhamverse Catwoman.

Putting the defense power into her stats with a defense of 6 is fine, if that's what the majority want.

So that's my compromise, but I'm definitely not dropping Bolas. And if we do all this, I'm throwing her being able to move through all figures back into her movement based power.
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  #24  
Old March 18th, 2016, 04:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Catwoman (Breathing Period)

The whiplash special attack couldn't be modified by height/Captain America/Bane, etc., though, so that 4 was static.

C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.


DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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