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  #673  
Old November 17th, 2014, 09:25 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Has Ozymandias ever been considered an issue? Over the course of discussions about other figures, it seems like he has been part of certain builds that have a potential reevaluation unit in.

Could costing an opponent an OM be too powerful too?

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  #674  
Old November 17th, 2014, 09:31 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Has Ozymandias ever been considered an issue? Over the course of discussions about other figures, it seems like he has been part of certain builds that have a potential reevaluation unit in.

Could costing an opponent an OM be too powerful too?

It's really not that bad of a power when you actually have to deal with the downside (having to waste a turn on Oz most of the time). It's Sage and Rodgers bypassing the costs of OM powers like that (while also doing a million other things...) that's the problem, not so much the guys like Ozy.


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  #675  
Old November 17th, 2014, 10:04 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Cool. Thanks Soundwarp!

Perhaps it was the Rodgers and Sage talks over the past several months where I kept seeing Ozy brought up.

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  #676  
Old November 18th, 2014, 07:15 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Do you think this for Sage:

TELEPATHIC TACTICIAN
After revealing an Order Marker on any card you control, if there are at least two Order Markers on this card, you may rearrange one unrevealed Order Marker on any Army Card you control.

and this for Commander Rogers:


MASTER TACTICIAN
At the beginning of your turn, if there is at least one revealed Order Marker on this card, you may rearrange any unrevealed Order Markers on Army Cards you control.

would work to fix them? Not only would that make them much more balanced, it would also make them much more distinct (a good thing, IMO, and a good thing incase any other future characters need abilities similar to this), and it provides a nice nod to Captain America's Avengers Assemble in Master Tactician, as others have pointed out before.

The change from one to two OMs in Sage is an attempt to combat the Ozy combo. Not sure if it'd work.


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  #677  
Old November 18th, 2014, 08:42 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Has Ozymandias ever been considered an issue? Over the course of discussions about other figures, it seems like he has been part of certain builds that have a potential reevaluation unit in.

Could costing an opponent an OM be too powerful too?

It's really not that bad of a power when you actually have to deal with the downside (having to waste a turn on Oz most of the time). It's Sage and Rodgers bypassing the costs of OM powers like that (while also doing a million other things...) that's the problem, not so much the guys like Ozy.
Without someone to move OMs, Ozy isn't too strong. You have a %75 of taking an opponent's turn, but it costs you your X and a %75 of being forced to take a turn with Ozy (who has no range and isn't worth moving out early in the game). Sage and Rogers remove the downside of the wasted OM and allow him to be played with other units that can move your opponent's OMs (Mad Thinker, Joker).

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  #678  
Old November 18th, 2014, 10:21 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Yeah, Ozymandias is fun, but outside of builds with units like Sage he's not overpowered at all.

Orang: That suggestion for Sage is interesting, it would prevent her from being used with Ozy effectively. As to Rogers, check back a few posts (the post before my tests): we're already moving forward with testing with the version you posted.

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  #679  
Old November 18th, 2014, 12:34 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Yeah, Ozymandias is fun, but outside of builds with units like Sage he's not overpowered at all.

Orang: That suggestion for Sage is interesting, it would prevent her from being used with Ozy effectively. As to Rogers, check back a few posts (the post before my tests): we're already moving forward with testing with the version you posted.
Ah, sorry - must not be checking here that often. Not surprised it's going through, though - it's a good one almost everyone seemed to like.

With that suggestion I made for Sage, I'd have kept it at one OM on her card were it not for Mr. Veidt - it was the only way I could think of to counter that situation. I'm concerned it may make that power a little too weak, now. Probably not, though, thinking about it.


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  #680  
Old November 18th, 2014, 01:10 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Orang: That suggestion for Sage is interesting, it would prevent her from being used with Ozy effectively.
If Ozy avoids the X, they could still work together just fine. However, it makes it quite risky if he misses.

Ozy has 2 and X.
Sage has the 3.
You have an OM sink in your army... we'll say it's Luke Cage. He has the 1.

Ozy reveals the X, grabs a number. He puts it on Sage. On OM1, Sage transfers Ozy's 2 to Cage. On OM2, Sage puts the 3 from her card on Cage.

Now, if Ozy pulls the X, you are stuck taking a turn with Ozy and a turn with Sage. But it does still work 75% of the time.
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  #681  
Old November 18th, 2014, 01:30 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Orang: That suggestion for Sage is interesting, it would prevent her from being used with Ozy effectively.
If Ozy avoids the X, they could still work together just fine. However, it makes it quite risky if he misses.

Ozy has 2 and X.
Sage has the 3.
You have an OM sink in your army... we'll say it's Luke Cage. He has the 1.

Ozy reveals the X, grabs a number. He puts it on Sage. On OM1, Sage transfers Ozy's 2 to Cage. On OM2, Sage puts the 3 from her card on Cage.

Now, if Ozy pulls the X, you are stuck taking a turn with Ozy and a turn with Sage. But it does still work 75% of the time.
Yeah, that was my concern with that version too.
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  #682  
Old November 18th, 2014, 02:33 PM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viegon View Post
Orang: That suggestion for Sage is interesting, it would prevent her from being used with Ozy effectively.
If Ozy avoids the X, they could still work together just fine. However, it makes it quite risky if he misses.

Ozy has 2 and X.
Sage has the 3.
You have an OM sink in your army... we'll say it's Luke Cage. He has the 1.

Ozy reveals the X, grabs a number. He puts it on Sage. On OM1, Sage transfers Ozy's 2 to Cage. On OM2, Sage puts the 3 from her card on Cage.

Now, if Ozy pulls the X, you are stuck taking a turn with Ozy and a turn with Sage. But it does still work 75% of the time.
It is a pretty big risk, though - Ozymandias and Sage are both really useful, and, while both are viable as combat figures, there are normally and, if you do get the X, you're left with a choice of whether to spend most of your round moving up figures who probably aren't up at the front anyway, aren't the ideal combatants you'd want to be using, and have a huge target on their heads because of their support powers and are now vulnerable, or just waste the majority of your round. Honestly, I wouldn't make that risk until late-game when Ozy and Sage become more viable as combat figures anyway. Basically, Sage is upping the risk/reward aspect of Ozymandias here, rather than making him all-round better. That said, it might not work, but I can't think of anything better right now so I thought I'd throw it out there.


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  #683  
Old November 19th, 2014, 10:08 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

Yeah, good point dok, I hadn't thought of using the OM Ozy grabs to activate Sage's ability. It'd still weaken it, but not in the right way in my opinion (as in, it makes her a lot less useful in more casual builds, but still makes her somewhat viable in crazy Ozy builds).

Personally, I think the best thing for Sage would be to make her power faction-specific (either for Mutants or for Telepaths).

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  #684  
Old November 19th, 2014, 10:51 AM
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Re: C3G Requests for Reevaluation

She already has Mutant synergy on her card - I'd love to see it go specifically for Telepaths, personally. Good idea, Viegon!

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